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Does it? How, specifically? As I do not work for the NSA, I hope you will understand my lack of real-life NSA examples. But surely you have experienced the way

Does it? How, specifically? As I do not work for the NSA, I hope you will understand my lack of real-life NSA examples. But surely you have experienced the ways bureaucracy can drag down a good project.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> But surely you have experienced the ways bureaucracy can drag down a good project. Surely I have -- and all of those have been about personal empire building, which wasn't the issue being discussed.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  You are familiar with the story of Kirk (Star Trek), and his exam at his academy? He cheats on the exam to beat an unwinnable simulation. This (well, Kirk in general) is portrayed as an example of the cowboy attitude at its best. I know it's fiction, but you want examples and those are some of the first that come to mind.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > I know it's fiction, but you want examples No, I don't want fictional examples of something posited as a loose analogy. I want an explanation of how rigid ethics would impair the effectiveness of the United States National Security Agency in fulfilling its duties under the laws and Constitution of the United States.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      I have a little more time now, so; Predecessor to the NSA- Despite the American Black Chamber's initial success, however, it was shut down in 1929 by U.S. Secretary of State Henry L. Stimson, who defended his decision by stating that "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency#Black_Chamber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency#Black_... The NSA's core goal is the global monitoring, collection, decoding, translation and analysis of information and data for foreign intelligence and counterintelligence purposes. Achieving these things runs afoul of at least some people's ethical systems. For example, how does someone with an unshakeable belief in the sanctity of life work to bring in a double-agent (traitor) to his country (who will be executed) without facing some ethical dilemmas?

dragonwriter 13y ago

> But surely you have experienced the ways bureaucracy can drag down a good project. Surely I have -- and all of those have been about personal empire building, which wasn't the issue being discussed.

sliverstorm 13y ago
You are familiar with the story of Kirk (Star Trek), and his exam at his academy? He cheats on the exam to beat an unwinnable simulation. This (well, Kirk in general) is portrayed as an example of the cowboy attitude at its best. I know it's fiction, but you want examples and those are some of the first that come to mind.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > I know it's fiction, but you want examples No, I don't want fictional examples of something posited as a loose analogy. I want an explanation of how rigid ethics would impair the effectiveness of the United States National Security Agency in fulfilling its duties under the laws and Constitution of the United States.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    I have a little more time now, so; Predecessor to the NSA- Despite the American Black Chamber's initial success, however, it was shut down in 1929 by U.S. Secretary of State Henry L. Stimson, who defended his decision by stating that "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency#Black_Chamber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency#Black_... The NSA's core goal is the global monitoring, collection, decoding, translation and analysis of information and data for foreign intelligence and counterintelligence purposes. Achieving these things runs afoul of at least some people's ethical systems. For example, how does someone with an unshakeable belief in the sanctity of life work to bring in a double-agent (traitor) to his country (who will be executed) without facing some ethical dilemmas?