5 ms·

>Watch out for IT. IT for people without a degree is a trap. What do you mean? You just talked about being in IT without a degree.

by asdasf 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
tptacek 13y ago
IT pays well out of the gate but offers virtually no path for advancement --- not in the sense of "are there better titles to be had" (sure, "Senior IT", "Manager, IT", "Director, IT") but rather in the sense of technical challenges and opportunities for learning and specialization. 5 years down the road, developers are doing significantly better on compensation and have essentially boundless opportunities (including, if one burns out, doing IT work); on the other hand, having 5 years of IT on your resume and no degree means it can be very hard to get a job outside of IT.
freehunter 13y ago
Sounds to me like the difference between IT and IS. You're either "the IT guy" or you work in IS doing real things. Not just rebooting a managers PC and installing printer drivers.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- cpucycling 13y ago
  Are you posting from the 90s?
  - freehunter 13y ago
    Helpdesk, desktop support/field service, and Geek Squad still exist. You tend not to see developers or architects doing that work for a living.
    - asdasf 13y ago
      Wait, so people think "IT" means desktop support? Network architect is IT. Sysadmins, network admins, "devops" (remember when they were called sysadmins?) are all IT.
      - freehunter 13y ago
        IT is about the technology. IS (information systems) is about the system as a whole, which includes the people. IT is focused on making technology work, IS is focused on using technology to improve a process. IT is a part of IS, but IS is bigger than IT. If your job focuses on fixing technology (such as computer repair), you're working IT. If your job focuses on processes and people (such as software development, information security, business enablement, etc), you're working in IS. For your website, the IT portion is the server it runs on. The IS portion is the IDE you use, your development environment, the server, your language/framework, the browser, your developers, and your customers. That's the information system as a whole that allows your website to work. But yeah, when I hear "IT guy", I think desktop support. People in IS outside of support tends to refer to themselves as something more specific than general IT: I'm a programmer/developer/software engineer. I'm a network administrator. I'm a systems architect. I'm a security engineer. That's just my experience, and that's what I interpreted the comment "stay out of IT" to mean. Desktop support doesn't tend to have much room for growth compared to careers in IS.
        asdasf 13y ago
        Ok, but your perception of IT as desktop support doesn't change reality.
        freehunter 13y ago
        Language is a reflection of the idea being presented. If your audience perceives IT to be desktop support, then using IT to mean desktop support is absolutely correct and does reflect reality. This is my interpretation of tptacek's comment, and from his posts afterwards it seems I am right. Other comments here are saying the same thing, that IT is a "computer janitor". This might be different in other English-speaking markets, but at least in this thread, that is what is being expressed. It doesn't matter what term is being used, that is what the parent was trying to get across. Don't become "the IT guy". The definition of IT guy he was using is "computer janitor".
- benjohnson 13y ago
  I run an IT shop for small construction companies - and I'll cheerfully reboot PCs and install drivers. Frankly, it's fun: It's a good way to meet interesting people... and if I listen very carefully I'll find an unmet business need that I can help with a custom database or an app.
  - freehunter 13y ago
    It sounds like you're more of a businessman than an IT guy. I used a job in IT to leverage my way into my current role of information security by listening to the needs of my company and offering my services doing way more than security work. I don't think anyone would disagree that being able to find a need and sell yourself as the solution are two of the biggest assets in finding success.

>Watch out for IT. IT for people without a degree is a trap. What do you mean? You just talked about being in IT without a degree.

by asdasf 13y ago

>Watch out for IT. IT for people without a degree is a trap. What do you mean? You just talked about being in IT without a degree.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

tptacek 13y ago

IT pays well out of the gate but offers virtually no path for advancement --- not in the sense of "are there better titles to be had" (sure, "Senior IT", "Manager, IT", "Director, IT") but rather in the sense of technical challenges and opportunities for learning and specialization. 5 years down the road, developers are doing significantly better on compensation and have essentially boundless opportunities (including, if one burns out, doing IT work); on the other hand, having 5 years of IT on your resume and no degree means it can be very hard to get a job outside of IT.

freehunter 13y ago

Sounds to me like the difference between IT and IS. You're either "the IT guy" or you work in IS doing real things. Not just rebooting a managers PC and installing printer drivers.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
cpucycling 13y ago
Are you posting from the 90s?
- freehunter 13y ago
  Helpdesk, desktop support/field service, and Geek Squad still exist. You tend not to see developers or architects doing that work for a living.
  - asdasf 13y ago
    Wait, so people think "IT" means desktop support? Network architect is IT. Sysadmins, network admins, "devops" (remember when they were called sysadmins?) are all IT.
    - freehunter 13y ago
      IT is about the technology. IS (information systems) is about the system as a whole, which includes the people. IT is focused on making technology work, IS is focused on using technology to improve a process. IT is a part of IS, but IS is bigger than IT. If your job focuses on fixing technology (such as computer repair), you're working IT. If your job focuses on processes and people (such as software development, information security, business enablement, etc), you're working in IS. For your website, the IT portion is the server it runs on. The IS portion is the IDE you use, your development environment, the server, your language/framework, the browser, your developers, and your customers. That's the information system as a whole that allows your website to work. But yeah, when I hear "IT guy", I think desktop support. People in IS outside of support tends to refer to themselves as something more specific than general IT: I'm a programmer/developer/software engineer. I'm a network administrator. I'm a systems architect. I'm a security engineer. That's just my experience, and that's what I interpreted the comment "stay out of IT" to mean. Desktop support doesn't tend to have much room for growth compared to careers in IS.
      - asdasf 13y ago
        Ok, but your perception of IT as desktop support doesn't change reality.
        freehunter 13y ago
        Language is a reflection of the idea being presented. If your audience perceives IT to be desktop support, then using IT to mean desktop support is absolutely correct and does reflect reality. This is my interpretation of tptacek's comment, and from his posts afterwards it seems I am right. Other comments here are saying the same thing, that IT is a "computer janitor". This might be different in other English-speaking markets, but at least in this thread, that is what is being expressed. It doesn't matter what term is being used, that is what the parent was trying to get across. Don't become "the IT guy". The definition of IT guy he was using is "computer janitor".
benjohnson 13y ago
I run an IT shop for small construction companies - and I'll cheerfully reboot PCs and install drivers. Frankly, it's fun: It's a good way to meet interesting people... and if I listen very carefully I'll find an unmet business need that I can help with a custom database or an app.
- freehunter 13y ago
  It sounds like you're more of a businessman than an IT guy. I used a job in IT to leverage my way into my current role of information security by listening to the needs of my company and offering my services doing way more than security work. I don't think anyone would disagree that being able to find a need and sell yourself as the solution are two of the biggest assets in finding success.