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Most managers will instinctively delegate dreadful tasks. That's part of the fun of management. I wonder if there's any managers around who also code? Maybe 50

by exodust 13y ago

Most managers will instinctively delegate dreadful tasks. That's part of the fun of management. I wonder if there's any managers around who also code? Maybe 50% of their time could be management, 50% coding. Nothing like getting hands dirty with the company code to see where things are at. Shared management roles could also be an option. Or, manage by committee? There's enough design by committee happening, surely we can all jump in on management decisions?

weland 13y ago
> I wonder if there's any managers around who also code? Maybe 50% of their time could be management, 50% coding. Nothing like getting hands dirty with the company code to see where things are at. An important part of the reason why so many technical people have an "overblown" idea about the inefficiency added by management is negative experience. I have met maybe a dozen people who were in management position and were not completely and utterly incompetent at what they were managing. More often than not, the managers I meet were people who started out as programmers, but quickly realized they don't stand a chance building a career out of it. This is an incredibly common career path.
- MrBuddyCasino 13y ago
  This. I'm working as a consultant, and I see the same thing over and over again. There aren't many "IT Managers" that are competent at what they're doing. If you are good at what you are doing (which might be programming), go and look for an environment with like-minded individuals with a sense of craftsmanship and pride in their work. Everything else will suck the life out of you.
- _puk 13y ago
  > Most managers will instinctively delegate dreadful tasks. That's part of the fun of management. I think this becomes one of the reasons that so many managers end up being viewed in a negative light. Surely part of a manager's job is to protect the team from external pressures. The decision to delegate should be made on the basis of the impact of delegating / not delegating, not on how dreadful the task is.
- mtrimpe 13y ago
  As one of my old (properly self-deprecating) managers used to say "If you're a lightweight you'll float to the top eventually."
- kabdib 13y ago
  The best managers I've had are ex-coders who have fully realized they cannot both code and do a good job as a manager. I had one really good coder cow-orker who became my manager. He tried, and it was pretty poignant at times, but eventually realized the truth. Until he did, he mostly sucked at both jobs.
  - weland 13y ago
    Yeah, this pretty much sums up what I've seen as well. I know good ex-coders who became good managers, but the stepping stone to doing it was having to stop writing code.
embwbam 13y ago
I've tried. It doesn't really work. Organizing is a "heads up" activity and trying to achieve flow while being available to answer questions and stuff is frustrating at best.
- mattlutze 13y ago
  This is my life right now. About a month ago I took on ~4 reports, but still need to maintain my previous productivity levels. It's really hard to both be available for them / our client and still get into my groove.
_puk 13y ago
> I wonder if there's any managers around who also code? Maybe 50% of their time could be management, 50% coding. Nothing like getting hands dirty with the company code to see where things are at. Yes. Though there is such a mental disparity between coding and higher level management that it is not 100% efficient. You're either coding or you're managing. You can't be knee deep in an obscure rendering bug whilst also still mentally committing to keeping track of what everyone else is doing. Getting back up to speed (from either one to the other) always takes a small amount of time.
VLM 13y ago
I've worked at places with this, usually called something like rotating team lead, or duty engineer, or ops duty, or pager week, or something like that. To the best of my knowledge everyone involved dreaded when their week came up. I've only experienced this implemented WRT (metaphorical) fire fighting not traditional dev work. If an earthshattering bug appears this week, you'll be fixing it and/or triaging it and/or figuring out who can help you fix it. Its awesome at getting rid of "pass the buck" and awesome for everyone else in the org to have a single point of contact (even if its a different human each week). Not so awesome around changeover time or if your docs aren't up to spec or when you discover the hard way someones code isn't good. Also not so hot at fixing major architectural issues (like, its going to take more than a week to fix this correctly, and I'm only on duty for a week, so whip out the band aids...)
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  Rotating through on call, especially having not just ops, but engineering rotate, is a huge benefit. As much as DevOps is being promoted, there are still two fundamentally different skillsets and job descriptions, and if its just the Ops side of the house getting the 2am wake-up pages, you're going to get a decidedly different attitude toward Things Wot Breaks Prod than if the developers are on that rotation as well. Plus it means rotation comes up that much less often, which is a good thing.

by exodust 13y ago

weland 13y ago

> I wonder if there's any managers around who also code? Maybe 50% of their time could be management, 50% coding. Nothing like getting hands dirty with the company code to see where things are at. An important part of the reason why so many technical people have an "overblown" idea about the inefficiency added by management is negative experience. I have met maybe a dozen people who were in management position and were not completely and utterly incompetent at what they were managing. More often than not, the managers I meet were people who started out as programmers, but quickly realized they don't stand a chance building a career out of it. This is an incredibly common career path.

MrBuddyCasino 13y ago
This. I'm working as a consultant, and I see the same thing over and over again. There aren't many "IT Managers" that are competent at what they're doing. If you are good at what you are doing (which might be programming), go and look for an environment with like-minded individuals with a sense of craftsmanship and pride in their work. Everything else will suck the life out of you.
_puk 13y ago
> Most managers will instinctively delegate dreadful tasks. That's part of the fun of management. I think this becomes one of the reasons that so many managers end up being viewed in a negative light. Surely part of a manager's job is to protect the team from external pressures. The decision to delegate should be made on the basis of the impact of delegating / not delegating, not on how dreadful the task is.
mtrimpe 13y ago
As one of my old (properly self-deprecating) managers used to say "If you're a lightweight you'll float to the top eventually."
kabdib 13y ago
The best managers I've had are ex-coders who have fully realized they cannot both code and do a good job as a manager. I had one really good coder cow-orker who became my manager. He tried, and it was pretty poignant at times, but eventually realized the truth. Until he did, he mostly sucked at both jobs.
- weland 13y ago
  Yeah, this pretty much sums up what I've seen as well. I know good ex-coders who became good managers, but the stepping stone to doing it was having to stop writing code.

embwbam 13y ago

I've tried. It doesn't really work. Organizing is a "heads up" activity and trying to achieve flow while being available to answer questions and stuff is frustrating at best.

mattlutze 13y ago
This is my life right now. About a month ago I took on ~4 reports, but still need to maintain my previous productivity levels. It's really hard to both be available for them / our client and still get into my groove.

_puk 13y ago

> I wonder if there's any managers around who also code? Maybe 50% of their time could be management, 50% coding. Nothing like getting hands dirty with the company code to see where things are at. Yes. Though there is such a mental disparity between coding and higher level management that it is not 100% efficient. You're either coding or you're managing. You can't be knee deep in an obscure rendering bug whilst also still mentally committing to keeping track of what everyone else is doing. Getting back up to speed (from either one to the other) always takes a small amount of time.

VLM 13y ago

I've worked at places with this, usually called something like rotating team lead, or duty engineer, or ops duty, or pager week, or something like that. To the best of my knowledge everyone involved dreaded when their week came up. I've only experienced this implemented WRT (metaphorical) fire fighting not traditional dev work. If an earthshattering bug appears this week, you'll be fixing it and/or triaging it and/or figuring out who can help you fix it. Its awesome at getting rid of "pass the buck" and awesome for everyone else in the org to have a single point of contact (even if its a different human each week). Not so awesome around changeover time or if your docs aren't up to spec or when you discover the hard way someones code isn't good. Also not so hot at fixing major architectural issues (like, its going to take more than a week to fix this correctly, and I'm only on duty for a week, so whip out the band aids...)

dredmorbius 13y ago
Rotating through on call, especially having not just ops, but engineering rotate, is a huge benefit. As much as DevOps is being promoted, there are still two fundamentally different skillsets and job descriptions, and if its just the Ops side of the house getting the 2am wake-up pages, you're going to get a decidedly different attitude toward Things Wot Breaks Prod than if the developers are on that rotation as well. Plus it means rotation comes up that much less often, which is a good thing.