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I am pretty confident that stuff like this does more harm to the bitcoin community than good. It further encourages anyone remotely involved to sit on their coi

by cstrat 13y ago

I am pretty confident that stuff like this does more harm to the bitcoin community than good. It further encourages anyone remotely involved to sit on their coins and not use them. The only way something like bitcoin can flourish is if the majority of users are spending them (trading them)... if 90% of people buy bitcoin in the hope they will go to $40K then they are supporting all the things that the naysayers are claiming (ponzi scheme and what not).

natrius 13y ago
This isn't true. If it becomes easier to spend bitcoins than dollars, why wouldn't you just spend bitcoins and convert your earnings to bitcoins as they come in? The problem with Bitcoin isn't so much the price volatility. It's that spending them is difficult. That is changing rapidly. If a merchant offers a bitcoin discount that reflects the lower costs of doing business with Bitcoin, why wouldn't consumers spend them?
- cstrat 13y ago
  i agree with you in principle, however i still think there is a flawed economy behind all this. as long as i have $$$ and can spend them, why would I used BTC if the value of BTC is going up X% each month... I am better off using fiat. at a purely commercial level, it makes sense to buy bitcoins for capital gains, and use $$$ for life.
ekianjo 13y ago
I don't agree. Optimistic view on bitcoin -> Media Attention -> User Attention -> Bitcoin value goes up -> User Pool Increase -> Merchants' attention increase -> more merchant support, resulting in more utility for bitcoin and more confidence in the viability of the currency. Of course, I'm simplifying stuff on purpose here, but more people talking about Bitcoin in a positive light is good for Bitcoin. Apart from the valuation they throw in here, them investing in Bitcoin will breed further options on the market.
- cstrat 13y ago
  it is true that more attention is good, however it is getting attention for the wrong reasons. It isn't getting attention because people are using bitcoin as a currency, rather an investment hoping for the capital gains. I have seen countless threads on forums where people are saying they accept bitcoin and are surprised that no one has used BTC yet. I'm confident at using bitcoins, but it makes more sense to just pay for something with cash if I have it... obviously if there were some incentive to use BTC (discount or whatnot) I might reconsider.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    > obviously if there were some incentive to use BTC (discount or whatnot) I might reconsider. You are already getting a discount if you use BTC to buy stuff online, since you don't need to use a credit card for such services. Credit cards are not free, you need to purchase them from your bank on a yearly basis. There is a very valid use of Bitcoin already: transferring money from one point in the world to another, without commission and fees. And this is also one of the key uses of Bitcoin, currently. > however it is getting attention for the wrong reasons There's not wrong reason. Whatever make people come to own Bitcoin does not mean they will stay for the same reason. As the utility curve ramps up, hoarders will progressively use it to buy goods and services. And even if it's a tiny portion of users, it will still push for additional Bitcoin growth.
    - aianus 13y ago
      I don't know where you're from, but credit cards in the US and Canada are not only free, but they pay me a 1% bribe to pay by credit whenever I have a choice. And because of their oligopoly on electronic payments, they're able to force merchants to sign contracts stating they're not allowed to charge an additional fee to consumers who pay by credit. Therefore it's almost always cheaper for me to pay by credit than any other form of payment.
      - ekianjo 13y ago
        Ok, maybe that's the case in the US/Canada only then. But try travelling around the world with your credit card, and you will be charged commissions when using your card abroad. By the way, there's nothing free even if it's free for you. Merchants have to pay the cost of providing Mastercard / visa payments and that cost makes it to the price of goods they sell. So you are paying the cost no matter what.
eru 13y ago
Every buyer needs a seller. So if this encourages people to buy, there will be sellers. And in any case, this claim won't really do much to increase bitcoin valuations. Perhaps rather the opposite, given the source.
javert 13y ago
To help bitcoin, people need to spend bitcoins and hold onto bitcoins. So you are presenting a false dichotomy. I can spend bitcoins by buying them and spending them, without decreasing my actual long-term bitcoin investment.

by cstrat 13y ago

natrius 13y ago

This isn't true. If it becomes easier to spend bitcoins than dollars, why wouldn't you just spend bitcoins and convert your earnings to bitcoins as they come in? The problem with Bitcoin isn't so much the price volatility. It's that spending them is difficult. That is changing rapidly. If a merchant offers a bitcoin discount that reflects the lower costs of doing business with Bitcoin, why wouldn't consumers spend them?

cstrat 13y ago
i agree with you in principle, however i still think there is a flawed economy behind all this. as long as i have $$$ and can spend them, why would I used BTC if the value of BTC is going up X% each month... I am better off using fiat. at a purely commercial level, it makes sense to buy bitcoins for capital gains, and use $$$ for life.

ekianjo 13y ago

I don't agree. Optimistic view on bitcoin -> Media Attention -> User Attention -> Bitcoin value goes up -> User Pool Increase -> Merchants' attention increase -> more merchant support, resulting in more utility for bitcoin and more confidence in the viability of the currency. Of course, I'm simplifying stuff on purpose here, but more people talking about Bitcoin in a positive light is good for Bitcoin. Apart from the valuation they throw in here, them investing in Bitcoin will breed further options on the market.

cstrat 13y ago
it is true that more attention is good, however it is getting attention for the wrong reasons. It isn't getting attention because people are using bitcoin as a currency, rather an investment hoping for the capital gains. I have seen countless threads on forums where people are saying they accept bitcoin and are surprised that no one has used BTC yet. I'm confident at using bitcoins, but it makes more sense to just pay for something with cash if I have it... obviously if there were some incentive to use BTC (discount or whatnot) I might reconsider.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  > obviously if there were some incentive to use BTC (discount or whatnot) I might reconsider. You are already getting a discount if you use BTC to buy stuff online, since you don't need to use a credit card for such services. Credit cards are not free, you need to purchase them from your bank on a yearly basis. There is a very valid use of Bitcoin already: transferring money from one point in the world to another, without commission and fees. And this is also one of the key uses of Bitcoin, currently. > however it is getting attention for the wrong reasons There's not wrong reason. Whatever make people come to own Bitcoin does not mean they will stay for the same reason. As the utility curve ramps up, hoarders will progressively use it to buy goods and services. And even if it's a tiny portion of users, it will still push for additional Bitcoin growth.
  - aianus 13y ago
    I don't know where you're from, but credit cards in the US and Canada are not only free, but they pay me a 1% bribe to pay by credit whenever I have a choice. And because of their oligopoly on electronic payments, they're able to force merchants to sign contracts stating they're not allowed to charge an additional fee to consumers who pay by credit. Therefore it's almost always cheaper for me to pay by credit than any other form of payment.
    - ekianjo 13y ago
      Ok, maybe that's the case in the US/Canada only then. But try travelling around the world with your credit card, and you will be charged commissions when using your card abroad. By the way, there's nothing free even if it's free for you. Merchants have to pay the cost of providing Mastercard / visa payments and that cost makes it to the price of goods they sell. So you are paying the cost no matter what.

eru 13y ago

Every buyer needs a seller. So if this encourages people to buy, there will be sellers. And in any case, this claim won't really do much to increase bitcoin valuations. Perhaps rather the opposite, given the source.

javert 13y ago

To help bitcoin, people need to spend bitcoins and hold onto bitcoins. So you are presenting a false dichotomy. I can spend bitcoins by buying them and spending them, without decreasing my actual long-term bitcoin investment.