4 ms·

I've long observed that the core problem with free open source software is that there is no incentive to do the small percentage of things which really do need

I've long observed that the core problem with free open source software is that there is no incentive to do the small percentage of things which really do need doing and which nobody has any incentive to do (see the classic problem of crappy video & audio drivers, among other such issues) short of one thing: MONEY. "Basic income" will suffer the same problem. There are things which must get done, and which nobody will do short of earning money doing it. Give people that money outright, and nobody will do those jobs for it. Oh, a few people might pitch in, but nowhere on the scale needed. BI romanticized the notion that most people will be productive contributors to society given free coverage of necessities. This is never objectively quantified in favor of the notion ... which history records various attempts at, with a great many people suffering horribly in the process of forcing it to work. Oh, these are always excused as "did it wrong, we'll do it right" with no objective reason to believe the optimism. Sure, some people will do good with their free money - but who's gonna do those dirty jobs? not you, you don't have time for it as you pursue more productive occupations, paying others to do so you don't have to.

crdoconnor 13y ago
>"Basic income" will suffer the same problem. There are things which must get done, and which nobody will do short of earning money doing it. Basic income does not mean everybody does their jobs for free.
- ctdonath 13y ago
  Basic income means nobody is in a position where they will do menial work which nobody else will. Paying more for those jobs means competing with like-paying jobs of a far more desirable character. You ready for custodial labor to cost several times more? suddenly employers can't spend nearly as much for more advanced work because basic sanitation (and other menial but needed work) is suddenly far more costly.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > Basic income means nobody is in a position where they will do menial work which nobody else will. This unsubstantiated assumption is the problem with your argument.
    - ctdonath 13y ago
      Lots of people face the choice: harvest fields under harsh conditions, or don't eat. You're suggesting giving them food which won't be harvested because they won't have an incentive to harvest it. Yes that's a contradiction - that's the problem with your argument.
  - glomph 13y ago
    Yes I am ready for that. Wage slavery is wrong if there is a viable alternative.
    - ctdonath 13y ago
      Then triple your custodian's pay already. Nothing's stopping you from doing the right thing.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> "Basic income" will suffer the same problem. There are things which must get done, and which nobody will do short of earning money doing it. Basic income doesn't stop people from earning money doing things. In fact, if it replaces minimum wage (which it is usually, though not always, proposed to do), it reduces the minimum value a task has to have to be worth paying someone to do it. > Give people that money outright, and nobody will do those jobs for it. Giving people some basic level of income outright doesn't prevent them from wanting more money, and doing whatever work they are qualified to do to get it.

crdoconnor 13y ago

>"Basic income" will suffer the same problem. There are things which must get done, and which nobody will do short of earning money doing it. Basic income does not mean everybody does their jobs for free.

ctdonath 13y ago
Basic income means nobody is in a position where they will do menial work which nobody else will. Paying more for those jobs means competing with like-paying jobs of a far more desirable character. You ready for custodial labor to cost several times more? suddenly employers can't spend nearly as much for more advanced work because basic sanitation (and other menial but needed work) is suddenly far more costly.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Basic income means nobody is in a position where they will do menial work which nobody else will. This unsubstantiated assumption is the problem with your argument.
  - ctdonath 13y ago
    Lots of people face the choice: harvest fields under harsh conditions, or don't eat. You're suggesting giving them food which won't be harvested because they won't have an incentive to harvest it. Yes that's a contradiction - that's the problem with your argument.
- glomph 13y ago
  Yes I am ready for that. Wage slavery is wrong if there is a viable alternative.
  - ctdonath 13y ago
    Then triple your custodian's pay already. Nothing's stopping you from doing the right thing.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> "Basic income" will suffer the same problem. There are things which must get done, and which nobody will do short of earning money doing it. Basic income doesn't stop people from earning money doing things. In fact, if it replaces minimum wage (which it is usually, though not always, proposed to do), it reduces the minimum value a task has to have to be worth paying someone to do it. > Give people that money outright, and nobody will do those jobs for it. Giving people some basic level of income outright doesn't prevent them from wanting more money, and doing whatever work they are qualified to do to get it.