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First off I myself am on disability, not by choice but because I became mentally ill due to the stress I was under at my job. Startup burnout or whatever. Seco

First off I myself am on disability, not by choice but because I became mentally ill due to the stress I was under at my job. Startup burnout or whatever. Secondly, I'd much rather be working a job than be on disability, but I wasn't given a choice because my doctors had ordered it. I wasn't given a choice because employers discriminated against me for my disability/mental illness and either called me 'overqualified' or refused to hire me or only hired me to fix things and then fire me when the things are fixed. I've been trying to do my own startup since 2002 when I lost my last job. No money for me anywhere. I would have less stress with my own small business and small circle of clients than in a large greedy megacorpration that cares more about profits at any cost than people or anything else. I think instead of basic income, we should give money to the small business administration to give people lessons in business management and programming or whatever to do their own startups. The SBA has a lot of volunteers who can mentor people into starting up a successful business. The real problem for people down on their luck like me is finding the money to do a startup while on disability or little or no income. I read articles about giving some random homeless guy money and programming training, and then he has an app in the app store for iPhones. Why don't we just do that for all of the poor people out there? Everyone can write their own app, get training and support, and get some startup funding and see if it works out they can have their own small business. If not, well at least you tried. This basic income is not freedom, it is slavery to force one out of the market and no longer be productive or do anything for society. I can just see people dropping out of high school in large numbers to stay at home with their parents, avoid taking a job, just apply for basic income and get that low income AT&T DSL Internet for $15/month and play video games on a cheap PC or used Playstation or used XBox for the rest of their lives and never contribute anything for the betterment their lives and help out others. Altruism is great, but most of it is fake altruism for attention or good PR or to pay for past sins of getting rich at the expense of others and make a foundation that does charitable things that buys products from their businesses and provides a tax shelter and then gives them awards. True altruism is doing things to help out others, and mentor them, and teach them to become better and also help out others and keep passing it on, with no personal rewards and no good PR and no attention, just doing it for the empathy and compassion. But so few people do true altruism these days, only the fake altruism. I think that it takes more than to just give someone money as a basic income, you need to give them an education, train them, mentor them, help them reach a level of success so they can become independent and then in turn help out others to do the same as people once helped them.

dllthomas 13y ago
"[I]t is slavery to force one out of the market and no longer be productive or do anything for society." While I wouldn't put it in such strong terms, I agree that is a horrible thing. I don't think it's at all what a basic income would do - especially a modest one. Doubly so in contrast to our current welfare (including disability) system. Basic Income is not contingent on you not working. If you can find some clients that are willing to pay you a little in exchange for some work you're happy to do, you take home the money they pay you on top of the Basic Income. "I can just see people dropping out of high school in large numbers to stay at home with their parents, avoid taking a job, just apply for basic income and get that low income AT&T DSL Internet for $15/month and play video games on a cheap PC or used Playstation or used XBox for the rest of their lives and never contribute anything for the betterment their lives and help out others." If their parents will stand for it, I'm sure that will happen some. But most people do like to feel productive, and most parents prefer to see their children doing something useful, and them doing something useful - for pay or otherwise - does not decrease the Basic Income stipend.
- orionblastar 13y ago
  What good is basic income if it does not encourage people on it to learn new things and find new sources of income or look for a job? What if basic income makes a majority of people not learn anything and just never learn from their mistakes and failures, and always have that basic income safety net to rely on even if all they do is play video games, get drunk every day, get stoned every day, abuse people every day, and just become a jerk to everyone because they have no responsibilities at all? I don't think this basic income (while it does sound nice) has not been properly thought through. Do you have any peer reviewed sources on it that I can learn more about it? Apparently this is a 'hot issue' as my parent post was downvoted into oblivion for raising doubts about it.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    "What good is basic income if it does not encourage people on it to learn new things and find new sources of income or look for a job?" I dispute the notion that fear of significant poverty is the only thing that can motivate people to do such things (or the best way to do it). "What if basic income makes a majority of people not learn anything and just never learn from their mistakes and failures, and always have that basic income safety net to rely on even if all they do is play video games, get drunk every day, get stoned every day, abuse people every day, and just become a jerk to everyone because they have no responsibilities at all?" I don't see how our current system prevents abusing people in any way that our system plus basic income would not. Regarding the others, I think escapist overindulgence in these things (and anything else on offer) is a problem we need better mechanisms for confronting. I don't think limiting people's resources is a necessary, sufficient, effective, or appropriate approach. Oftentimes people fall into these habits because they feel there is nothing they can do to improve their situation. "I don't think this basic income (while it does sound nice) has not been properly thought through. Do you have any peer reviewed sources on it that I can learn more about it?" I'm sure there've been plenty of economics papers in journals through the years, given that Milton Friedman was an avid proponent. Regarding an actual experiment with Basic Income: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

dllthomas 13y ago

"[I]t is slavery to force one out of the market and no longer be productive or do anything for society." While I wouldn't put it in such strong terms, I agree that is a horrible thing. I don't think it's at all what a basic income would do - especially a modest one. Doubly so in contrast to our current welfare (including disability) system. Basic Income is not contingent on you not working. If you can find some clients that are willing to pay you a little in exchange for some work you're happy to do, you take home the money they pay you on top of the Basic Income. "I can just see people dropping out of high school in large numbers to stay at home with their parents, avoid taking a job, just apply for basic income and get that low income AT&T DSL Internet for $15/month and play video games on a cheap PC or used Playstation or used XBox for the rest of their lives and never contribute anything for the betterment their lives and help out others." If their parents will stand for it, I'm sure that will happen some. But most people do like to feel productive, and most parents prefer to see their children doing something useful, and them doing something useful - for pay or otherwise - does not decrease the Basic Income stipend.

orionblastar 13y ago
What good is basic income if it does not encourage people on it to learn new things and find new sources of income or look for a job? What if basic income makes a majority of people not learn anything and just never learn from their mistakes and failures, and always have that basic income safety net to rely on even if all they do is play video games, get drunk every day, get stoned every day, abuse people every day, and just become a jerk to everyone because they have no responsibilities at all? I don't think this basic income (while it does sound nice) has not been properly thought through. Do you have any peer reviewed sources on it that I can learn more about it? Apparently this is a 'hot issue' as my parent post was downvoted into oblivion for raising doubts about it.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  "What good is basic income if it does not encourage people on it to learn new things and find new sources of income or look for a job?" I dispute the notion that fear of significant poverty is the only thing that can motivate people to do such things (or the best way to do it). "What if basic income makes a majority of people not learn anything and just never learn from their mistakes and failures, and always have that basic income safety net to rely on even if all they do is play video games, get drunk every day, get stoned every day, abuse people every day, and just become a jerk to everyone because they have no responsibilities at all?" I don't see how our current system prevents abusing people in any way that our system plus basic income would not. Regarding the others, I think escapist overindulgence in these things (and anything else on offer) is a problem we need better mechanisms for confronting. I don't think limiting people's resources is a necessary, sufficient, effective, or appropriate approach. Oftentimes people fall into these habits because they feel there is nothing they can do to improve their situation. "I don't think this basic income (while it does sound nice) has not been properly thought through. Do you have any peer reviewed sources on it that I can learn more about it?" I'm sure there've been plenty of economics papers in journals through the years, given that Milton Friedman was an avid proponent. Regarding an actual experiment with Basic Income: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome