4 ms·

Is this illegal? Could he somehow go to some authority? EDIT: Why is it unlikely the FBI will successfully investigate?

patio11 13y ago
Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: it is obviously and unambiguously illegal. You can certainly refer this to the FBI computer crimes folks and your local law enforcement. It is unlikely they will successfully investigate.
- vertis 13y ago
  Yeah, I'll discuss this with Amazon when they get back to me, but I don't hold much hope for a positive outcome.
- rplnt 13y ago
  What specifically is illegal about that? Someone gave you credentials to an online service. Now you use those credentials. What law did you brake? You probably broke the ToS/EULA/whatever, but that by itself is not illegal. (I'm not saying otherwise, I'm asking)
  - computer 13y ago
    For the US, pretty much anything is covered under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act
  - freehunter 13y ago
    Just because you have the means to do something does not mean you have the permission. If I drop my car key on the ground and you take it, it's still stealing. I gave you the means (accidentally), not the permission. Especially when using the ill-gotten item will cost me (gas, time, money). Reminds me of the old phrase: What's the difference between hacking and penetration testing? Permission.
    - rplnt 13y ago
      Yes, I see that difference. I also know there are laws protecting computer systems and such. But was wondering if it could be applied to an online service.
stefan_kendall 13y ago
Possibly because it would cost the FBI orders of magnitude more than the damages to investigate. The damages which amazon will likely refund. The FBI does not target petty thieves.
- richo 13y ago
  Amusingly, I went to a meetup with some feds the other day. Their statutory minimum to investigate is 5k, but they suggested it's worth getting in touch with them either way. If nothing else, it'll give them an excuse to say "cyber" a few more times.
  - fsckin 13y ago
    This. I was defrauded to the tune of $3,500 (run of the mill stolen Paypal account bought a top of the line iMac from me on eBay) and after discovering to my horror that both eBay and Paypal sidestep all fraud for protection... I called the FBI, police, etc. They listened politely until I said how much it was worth -- one of my favorite quotes was "If you added a zero to the end, we'd knock down their door at 6AM tomorrow. For $3,500 it's simply not worth our time."
    - shimon_e 13y ago
      The decimal point adds two zeros. ;) He is still a criminal either way.
    - kamjam 13y ago
      Dang, that sucks. So neither eBay OR Paypal helped? Did you send the macbook to the "Paypal verified address", because I thought that was one of the protection requirements?
- jellicle 13y ago
  Oh, they certainly do, if powerful enough people complain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz The question is whether the poster is such a person.
negamax 13y ago
I am not sure but FBI can only be involved on financial frauds over 1 million (I vaguely remember this and could be wrong)
- tptacek 13y ago
  Pretty sure you're wrong about that.
billclerico 13y ago
statutory minimum is 5k. we work with federal law enforcement somewhat frequently at wepay to deter fraud, and it appears that the informal threshold to get their interest is about 100k of damages
meowface 13y ago
Illegal? Yes. Convictable? Yes. But will any law enforcement department or agency actually look into it? Highly unlikely. There's so much major scale white collar crime/cybercrime going on daily that it's generally too hard to dedicate resources to smaller cases like this. Now, if they got evidence the perpetrator was doing this with dozens or hundreds of AWS accounts, that would be another story.

Ask a simple question, get a simple answer: it is obviously and unambiguously illegal. You can certainly refer this to the FBI computer crimes folks and your local law enforcement. It is unlikely they will successfully investigate.

vertis 13y ago
Yeah, I'll discuss this with Amazon when they get back to me, but I don't hold much hope for a positive outcome.
rplnt 13y ago
What specifically is illegal about that? Someone gave you credentials to an online service. Now you use those credentials. What law did you brake? You probably broke the ToS/EULA/whatever, but that by itself is not illegal. (I'm not saying otherwise, I'm asking)
- computer 13y ago
  For the US, pretty much anything is covered under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act
- freehunter 13y ago
  Just because you have the means to do something does not mean you have the permission. If I drop my car key on the ground and you take it, it's still stealing. I gave you the means (accidentally), not the permission. Especially when using the ill-gotten item will cost me (gas, time, money). Reminds me of the old phrase: What's the difference between hacking and penetration testing? Permission.
  - rplnt 13y ago
    Yes, I see that difference. I also know there are laws protecting computer systems and such. But was wondering if it could be applied to an online service.

stefan_kendall 13y ago

Possibly because it would cost the FBI orders of magnitude more than the damages to investigate. The damages which amazon will likely refund. The FBI does not target petty thieves.

richo 13y ago
Amusingly, I went to a meetup with some feds the other day. Their statutory minimum to investigate is 5k, but they suggested it's worth getting in touch with them either way. If nothing else, it'll give them an excuse to say "cyber" a few more times.
- fsckin 13y ago
  This. I was defrauded to the tune of $3,500 (run of the mill stolen Paypal account bought a top of the line iMac from me on eBay) and after discovering to my horror that both eBay and Paypal sidestep all fraud for protection... I called the FBI, police, etc. They listened politely until I said how much it was worth -- one of my favorite quotes was "If you added a zero to the end, we'd knock down their door at 6AM tomorrow. For $3,500 it's simply not worth our time."
  - shimon_e 13y ago
    The decimal point adds two zeros. ;) He is still a criminal either way.
  - kamjam 13y ago
    Dang, that sucks. So neither eBay OR Paypal helped? Did you send the macbook to the "Paypal verified address", because I thought that was one of the protection requirements?
jellicle 13y ago
Oh, they certainly do, if powerful enough people complain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz The question is whether the poster is such a person.

negamax 13y ago

I am not sure but FBI can only be involved on financial frauds over 1 million (I vaguely remember this and could be wrong)

tptacek 13y ago
Pretty sure you're wrong about that.

billclerico 13y ago

statutory minimum is 5k. we work with federal law enforcement somewhat frequently at wepay to deter fraud, and it appears that the informal threshold to get their interest is about 100k of damages

meowface 13y ago

Illegal? Yes. Convictable? Yes. But will any law enforcement department or agency actually look into it? Highly unlikely. There's so much major scale white collar crime/cybercrime going on daily that it's generally too hard to dedicate resources to smaller cases like this. Now, if they got evidence the perpetrator was doing this with dozens or hundreds of AWS accounts, that would be another story.