5 ms·

>she courted the attention in a way that a mature and psychologically sound woman wouldn't. You just justified the attacks on her, which was the entire point o

by marquis 13y ago

>she courted the attention in a way that a mature and psychologically sound woman wouldn't. You just justified the attacks on her, which was the entire point of the article, saying that no attacks are justified, regardless of the situation. She was studying sociology and gender theory. As a woman I appreciate it when other woman have the courage to write about their lives in public, it enriches our own understanding of ourselves. If we all kept to ourselves there would be less information, especially for young woman whose lives are complicated (like young men). Anyone has a right to keep a blog about anything she wants, using her real name, and not be attacked for it. The issue here is that people are posting vitriol about others, on sites where there is no allowance for rebuttal. I just read a book about the Victorian-era, where it was fairly common to complain in the local newspaper about someone else, and the ethics of the papers allowed the attackee to issue a rebuttal in the same issue.

selmnoo 13y ago
> You just justified the attacks on her, which was the entire point of the article, saying that no attacks are justified, regardless of the situation. No, he didn't. I have a daughter who I instruct to dress in a way that covers most of her body. This does not mean that I am justifying rapes that happen because some lustful men are aroused by scantily-clad women, it simply means I observed and recognized the reality of the situation, and realized that dressing in a certain way reduces the chance of an incident. The fact that there are men out there who are unable to control their urges is a separate thing (that we of course should be talking about as a society). Likewise, michaelochurch made an observation on what is a good strategy to reduce the chances of being hurt. He explicitly went on to mention that he wishes the reality of things weren't this way.
- anu_gupta 13y ago
  > I have a daughter who I instruct to dress in a way that covers most of her body. Honestly, you couldn't make stuff up like this if you tried. Amazing.
  - selmnoo 13y ago
    Is today 'purposely misread/ignore the point of posts and make a flippant content-less one-line reply' day or something? I'm a strong supporter of affirmative action programs, I go out of my way to get women and girls interested in programming, and I consider myself to be a feminist. I'm interested in getting results, and making practical and smart decisions for the day-by-day happenings. As for you - please stop being this way, stop with the snippy replies, stop polarizing the crowds, what you're doing is unproductive. Step away from the keyboard and think about what you're doing here.
    - gaius 13y ago
      If you were to say, don't walk through the ghetto flashing your Rolex or you might be mugged, no one would consider that a controversial statement, not a justification for mugging. It's only when sex is involved that people get a little weird.
      - vidarh 13y ago
        No, it is when people makes statements that assumes we're living in a kind of environment that we refuse to accept we are living in. And most of us are not living in places where "covering up" is a way to avoid rape. Not least because the vast majority of rapes are date rapes, carried out by people known to the victim, not carried out by strangers. Covering up when going out is thus not advice that actually protects women in a noteworthy way. If the intent is actually to protect women rather than to exert moralistic control over them and their sexual expression, we should expect said men to be more concerned about said women's boyfriends, spouses or other male friends, not worrying about the lengths of their skirts.
    - anu_gupta 13y ago
      Ah ok, you're trolling - I should have realised.
  - vezzy-fnord 13y ago
    Do you keep your door locked? Yes? Why should you? After all, it's not you who needs to guard your property, it's the thieves who should be told to stop stealing! This is the exact same logic a lot of contemporary postmodern feminists use in arguments concerning rape. It's not about bondage and discipline, it's about risk management.
michaelochurch 13y ago
You just justified the attacks on her, which was the entire point of the article, saying that no attacks are justified, regardless of the situation. No. I think she was immature and probably mentally ill. Biological mental illness deserves compassion and treatment, not vitriol from anonymous cowards. I'm not saying that the attacks on her were justified. I'm saying they were predictable. I live in Baltimore. I'm in a nice neighborhood. Two miles north of me? Dangerous urban decay. I should be able to walk around at 3:30 am in any part of the city-- any part of the world, really-- without fearing physical harm. But that's not the world we live in, now is it? no attacks are justified, regardless of the situation. I can agree with this.
- amirmc 13y ago
  > "But that's not the world we live in, now is it?" Neither is it the world we aspire to. Taking an attitude of 'Well, what did you expect?' Is never going to improve anything.
  - michaelochurch 13y ago
    Ok, on that I can agree. Here's the issue. Kathy Sierra was attacked without provocation. Lena Chen used her sexuality in the public to gain attention (and, to a degree, social power). My levels of sympathy are different. Kathy Sierra was the lawful driver hit by a drunk. Lena Chen was the 120-mph speeder who ended up in a crash. Everyone speeds, and no one "deserves" to be in a crash for driving 120mph, but the laws of physics are not so kind. If we have to choose between enforcing DUI laws and redoing all our roads to make 120mph safe (which may not even be possible given the limits of most cars) then I'm going to take the former. The "Game" culture of casual sex-- and it's important to note that it's the culture and not the sex that is so revolting; sex that isn't in other peoples' face is none of anyone else's business-- has damaged respect between the genders and proven itself to be generally toxic. The prudent thing for a young woman to do is distance herself from it entirely, date respectable men, and have a private sex life existing in the context of monogamous relationships. If you're offended by the prior sentence, then switch the genders (or extend it to gays) and note that it's equally valid. I would advise a son not to have casual sex (false rape accusations, emotional problems that can afflict both men and women, reputation risks) just as fervently as a daughter. It's just a horrible culture that is best avoided outright.

by marquis 13y ago

selmnoo 13y ago

> You just justified the attacks on her, which was the entire point of the article, saying that no attacks are justified, regardless of the situation. No, he didn't. I have a daughter who I instruct to dress in a way that covers most of her body. This does not mean that I am justifying rapes that happen because some lustful men are aroused by scantily-clad women, it simply means I observed and recognized the reality of the situation, and realized that dressing in a certain way reduces the chance of an incident. The fact that there are men out there who are unable to control their urges is a separate thing (that we of course should be talking about as a society). Likewise, michaelochurch made an observation on what is a good strategy to reduce the chances of being hurt. He explicitly went on to mention that he wishes the reality of things weren't this way.

anu_gupta 13y ago
> I have a daughter who I instruct to dress in a way that covers most of her body. Honestly, you couldn't make stuff up like this if you tried. Amazing.
- selmnoo 13y ago
  Is today 'purposely misread/ignore the point of posts and make a flippant content-less one-line reply' day or something? I'm a strong supporter of affirmative action programs, I go out of my way to get women and girls interested in programming, and I consider myself to be a feminist. I'm interested in getting results, and making practical and smart decisions for the day-by-day happenings. As for you - please stop being this way, stop with the snippy replies, stop polarizing the crowds, what you're doing is unproductive. Step away from the keyboard and think about what you're doing here.
  - gaius 13y ago
    If you were to say, don't walk through the ghetto flashing your Rolex or you might be mugged, no one would consider that a controversial statement, not a justification for mugging. It's only when sex is involved that people get a little weird.
    - vidarh 13y ago
      No, it is when people makes statements that assumes we're living in a kind of environment that we refuse to accept we are living in. And most of us are not living in places where "covering up" is a way to avoid rape. Not least because the vast majority of rapes are date rapes, carried out by people known to the victim, not carried out by strangers. Covering up when going out is thus not advice that actually protects women in a noteworthy way. If the intent is actually to protect women rather than to exert moralistic control over them and their sexual expression, we should expect said men to be more concerned about said women's boyfriends, spouses or other male friends, not worrying about the lengths of their skirts.
  - anu_gupta 13y ago
    Ah ok, you're trolling - I should have realised.
- vezzy-fnord 13y ago
  Do you keep your door locked? Yes? Why should you? After all, it's not you who needs to guard your property, it's the thieves who should be told to stop stealing! This is the exact same logic a lot of contemporary postmodern feminists use in arguments concerning rape. It's not about bondage and discipline, it's about risk management.

michaelochurch 13y ago

You just justified the attacks on her, which was the entire point of the article, saying that no attacks are justified, regardless of the situation. No. I think she was immature and probably mentally ill. Biological mental illness deserves compassion and treatment, not vitriol from anonymous cowards. I'm not saying that the attacks on her were justified. I'm saying they were predictable. I live in Baltimore. I'm in a nice neighborhood. Two miles north of me? Dangerous urban decay. I should be able to walk around at 3:30 am in any part of the city-- any part of the world, really-- without fearing physical harm. But that's not the world we live in, now is it? no attacks are justified, regardless of the situation. I can agree with this.

amirmc 13y ago
> "But that's not the world we live in, now is it?" Neither is it the world we aspire to. Taking an attitude of 'Well, what did you expect?' Is never going to improve anything.
- michaelochurch 13y ago
  Ok, on that I can agree. Here's the issue. Kathy Sierra was attacked without provocation. Lena Chen used her sexuality in the public to gain attention (and, to a degree, social power). My levels of sympathy are different. Kathy Sierra was the lawful driver hit by a drunk. Lena Chen was the 120-mph speeder who ended up in a crash. Everyone speeds, and no one "deserves" to be in a crash for driving 120mph, but the laws of physics are not so kind. If we have to choose between enforcing DUI laws and redoing all our roads to make 120mph safe (which may not even be possible given the limits of most cars) then I'm going to take the former. The "Game" culture of casual sex-- and it's important to note that it's the culture and not the sex that is so revolting; sex that isn't in other peoples' face is none of anyone else's business-- has damaged respect between the genders and proven itself to be generally toxic. The prudent thing for a young woman to do is distance herself from it entirely, date respectable men, and have a private sex life existing in the context of monogamous relationships. If you're offended by the prior sentence, then switch the genders (or extend it to gays) and note that it's equally valid. I would advise a son not to have casual sex (false rape accusations, emotional problems that can afflict both men and women, reputation risks) just as fervently as a daughter. It's just a horrible culture that is best avoided outright.