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Yeah, cause not using your legal rights to escape punishment when you are guilty is exactly the same as not exercising them when you are innocent. This attitud

by mehwoot 13y ago

Yeah, cause not using your legal rights to escape punishment when you are guilty is exactly the same as not exercising them when you are innocent. This attitude actually erodes our legal rights, because it causes police officers, judges and jurors to have less reason to think people are acting in good faith when they exercise their rights, causing innocent people to be found guilty and eventually leading to these rights being weakened by having the law change.

zimbatm 13y ago
I don't think we read the same article. From his letter I understood somebody else was driving the vehicle: "I also see find no legal requirement for me to implicate someone else in this process, as it is the government’s responsibility to prove a person’s guilt. It is also my 5th amendment right to remain silent on the matter." It's just a speeding ticket but I hope that for something more serious they aren't so lazy on proofs. Hand-wavy justice is not good either for the system.
- mehwoot 13y ago
  He doesn't say anyone else was driving the car, and there is no reason to assume anyone else was, since he says I am always in the habit of fighting my tickets and NOT pre-paying them so I don’t have to go to court – like many folks do.
coralreef 13y ago
This attitude actually erodes our legal rights, because it causes police officers, judges and jurors to have less reason to think people are acting in good faith when they exercise their rights, causing innocent people to be found guilty and eventually leading to these rights being weakened by having the law change. Innocent people around found guilty because they think they have nothing to hide, they make statements that inadvertently end up hurting them, and the police or prosecutors do not care. It is called an adversarial system for a reason; they are not on your side. And news flash: police can/have been dishonest, will lie to suspects, etc. "Good faith" has nothing to do with exercising your rights. Being guilty or innocent has nothing to do with your rights. You are entitled to your rights regardless. Your idea of judges and jurors being jaded by guilty people pleading innocent is not real.
- mehwoot 13y ago
  None of that applies in this case though. There are states where the law is, if it is your car, you pay the fine. It is that way exactly because people like this dude will try and get out of paying the fine, and so the law has had to be changed. That means, in the rare occurrence that you actually were not driving your car and you don't know who was (and it wasn't stolen, that you know of), you have no way to get out of your ticket. This type of behavior has directly led to a situation where innocent people have lost their rights. Your idea of judges and jurors being jaded by guilty people pleading innocent is not real. Ok, so explain why states have laws where you must show you reported your car stolen to get out of a ticket? What would be the point of that, except if people who were guilty were using such arguments as these to get out of tickets? Laws restricting rights like this are enacted all the freaking time because of behavior like this article.
  - coralreef 13y ago
    What are you asking me? States put laws together for any variety of motives. Did it occur to you that the law was put together because states enjoy the income driven by automated ticketing? Are you seriously trying to argue that the government takes away rights and freedoms because people keep excercising them when the gov prosecutes them?

by mehwoot 13y ago

zimbatm 13y ago

I don't think we read the same article. From his letter I understood somebody else was driving the vehicle: "I also see find no legal requirement for me to implicate someone else in this process, as it is the government’s responsibility to prove a person’s guilt. It is also my 5th amendment right to remain silent on the matter." It's just a speeding ticket but I hope that for something more serious they aren't so lazy on proofs. Hand-wavy justice is not good either for the system.

mehwoot 13y ago
He doesn't say anyone else was driving the car, and there is no reason to assume anyone else was, since he says I am always in the habit of fighting my tickets and NOT pre-paying them so I don’t have to go to court – like many folks do.

coralreef 13y ago

This attitude actually erodes our legal rights, because it causes police officers, judges and jurors to have less reason to think people are acting in good faith when they exercise their rights, causing innocent people to be found guilty and eventually leading to these rights being weakened by having the law change. Innocent people around found guilty because they think they have nothing to hide, they make statements that inadvertently end up hurting them, and the police or prosecutors do not care. It is called an adversarial system for a reason; they are not on your side. And news flash: police can/have been dishonest, will lie to suspects, etc. "Good faith" has nothing to do with exercising your rights. Being guilty or innocent has nothing to do with your rights. You are entitled to your rights regardless. Your idea of judges and jurors being jaded by guilty people pleading innocent is not real.

mehwoot 13y ago
None of that applies in this case though. There are states where the law is, if it is your car, you pay the fine. It is that way exactly because people like this dude will try and get out of paying the fine, and so the law has had to be changed. That means, in the rare occurrence that you actually were not driving your car and you don't know who was (and it wasn't stolen, that you know of), you have no way to get out of your ticket. This type of behavior has directly led to a situation where innocent people have lost their rights. Your idea of judges and jurors being jaded by guilty people pleading innocent is not real. Ok, so explain why states have laws where you must show you reported your car stolen to get out of a ticket? What would be the point of that, except if people who were guilty were using such arguments as these to get out of tickets? Laws restricting rights like this are enacted all the freaking time because of behavior like this article.
- coralreef 13y ago
  What are you asking me? States put laws together for any variety of motives. Did it occur to you that the law was put together because states enjoy the income driven by automated ticketing? Are you seriously trying to argue that the government takes away rights and freedoms because people keep excercising them when the gov prosecutes them?