8 ms·

How to Beat a Photo-Enforced Speeding Ticket or Red Light Ticket

23 points by bado 13y ago

bsirkia 13y ago
Very interesting. The only thing I don't get is that if the government knows it can't enforce these red-light and speeding camera tickets, why implement them? Is it really because they know that the majority of people will just pay and not fight it?
- IbJacked 13y ago
  Yes, exactly that. It's a sizable revenue stream.
  - TDAnderson 13y ago
    Some jurisdictions logically allow (and use) for front shots of the car - solves every issue at stake. Not sure if the guy installing the camera was not the brightest, or DC laws are on this one at fault.
jacknews 13y ago
Um, so was this guy actually driving his car when it was photographed speeding, or not? He doesn't say, but I'm guessing yes. And so this post is simply a tip on how to break the law and get away with it? That may be fine (sorry!) if it were a useless and unfair law[1]. Perhaps that is the case with speed limits on some sections of road, which seem designed to gather revenue rather than enhance safety. But in general I find speeding to be a fairly selfish and not very useful crime. It doesn't really speed journey times significantly, but puts other road users at greater risk of iinjury or even death. -- [1] It may be ok to ignore stupid laws, under some moral frameworks. Though, if you're not going to follow the actual law, what are you going to follow? How does society function when people have different ideas of right?
- coralreef 13y ago
  Its protest against unfair implementation. You can't charge a person with a crime when you can't even identify that person. But thats what the government is doing. And people are scared enough (or ignorant of their rights) that they simply submit.
  - doughj3 13y ago
    People aren't "scared enough" that they submit, they submit because they have been caught. I'm not sure what makes an automated radar with a camera any different than a state trooper holding a radar gun, can you elaborate why that's an "unfair"?
    - coralreef 13y ago
      An officer pulls you over, takes your license and registration, physically identifies you and can testify in court should you challenge the ticket.
  - EpicEng 13y ago
    Yeah... unfortunately, they always get my face as I roll through red lights on right hand turns... usually talking on my cell phone.
  - scoofy 13y ago
    There are many ways this isn't unfair. Driving is a privilege, not a right. If you refuse to pay the ticket, but deny your car was stolen, it would be simple enough for the state to revoke your license. Same as with failing to submit to a breathalyser can result in a suspended license. The state can simply make it your duty to monitor who drives your car.
  - FireBeyond 13y ago
    A traffic citation is not a felony charge, and hence different rules apply. There is a general, and reasonable (please feel free to argue how it is unreasonable) expectation that the registered owner is the driver of the vehicle or is aware of who is driving the vehicle at any given time.
mehwoot 13y ago
How many people honestly find the attitude that "I can get away with it, therefore it is ok to do" acceptable? Yeah, they can't prove it was you, but we both know that you were speeding. Furthermore since it is your car, in 99% of cases it is either you or someone you lent your car to. Would this be different if it was a drink driving case? I'm sorry, but for all your opinion on why it's legal for you to do this, I think you're a fucking douchebag.
- coralreef 13y ago
  What good are your legal rights if you refuse to exercise them?
  - doughj3 13y ago
    Legal rights should protect you from the government, not get you off of a crime you committed.
    - coralreef 13y ago
      Consider that in America, everything is a crime, we all commit crimes every day, from jay walking to improper lane changing to viewing pirated content on the internet. Legal rights also protect you from the a government's overzealous, overreaching, and overbearing enforcement.
  - scoofy 13y ago
    I don't follow most laws because i'm afraid of jail. I follow most laws because i think they make society better, and it's my duty. Speed limits are one of the laws that i think make society better. I'd pay the ticket, not because i had to, but because i have a fucking conscience.
  - mehwoot 13y ago
    Yeah, cause not using your legal rights to escape punishment when you are guilty is exactly the same as not exercising them when you are innocent. This attitude actually erodes our legal rights, because it causes police officers, judges and jurors to have less reason to think people are acting in good faith when they exercise their rights, causing innocent people to be found guilty and eventually leading to these rights being weakened by having the law change.
doughj3 13y ago
First of all, this doesn't work everywhere since some jurisdictions have joint liability for the registered owner and driver[1] and some don't care at all and the registered owner is ticketed regardless of the driver (protip- don't lend your car to people who break the law). But secondly, reading the post it seems like OP did break the law and is trying to get off on some technicality, which I admit I can't support. Sorry, don't drive like a jerk if you don't want to deal with the consequences. While fines might not discourage some people, points on the license tend to stop repeat offenders. [1] http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/auto_enforce.html http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/auto_enforce.html
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
fiatmoney 13y ago
There is a direct correspondence between: - Recording a license plate associated with some dubious activity, and then ticketing the owner of the car; and - Recording an IP address associated with some dubious activity, and suing (or worse) the person who pays for the internet connection. There is a large and schizophrenic body of law about when an owner is responsible for the operation of "their" machine, even if they're not doing the immediate operating (going all the way back to "who pays the man gored by a rented ox"). With automated systems subject to shitty algorithms the problem becomes much more acute but it is by no means a new problem.
tedks 13y ago
1. Drive a car with enough Ron Paul bumper stickers to create a local gravitational distortion and bend light away from your license plate. Which you only have because government FATCATS force you to REGISTER impeding your natural right of FREE MOTION! Fascists. 2. When issued a ticket because you were going 70 in a 45mph zone (presumably because driving as fast as possible is what segregates the Men of Action from the taker scum), respond with the most passive-aggressive note possible, citing every single Bill of Rights item (it'll be hard to connect your camera ticket to quartering, but you've got enough Ron Paul quotes to find a way). 3. After producing enough laughter to lighten the entire week of a DC government schlub and her entire cubicle farm (not to mention the years of entertainment they'll get from putting your absurd essay on the immorality of the very concept of a "speed" "limit" and the gross infringement on the natural right of man to drive as fast as possible, as far as possible, in order to demonstrate his mastery over the laws of nature just as chain-smoking demonstrated the Objectivists' mastery over fire), get waived out so that you don't fill up an hour of a judges time (again) with an "opening statement" that reads the entire Wikipedia page on Ayn Rand into the court record.
gmays 13y ago
>"Sincerely, Nathan Cox United States Army Veteran" I find it annoying when vets use their service to get out of stuff, get free stuff, etc. as if we're owed something. It's a privilege to serve and it's voluntary. Act like it. > "I am in the habit of not taking “plea deals”, and I am always in the habit of fighting my tickets...so I don’t have to go to court... I just about always record my interactions with the police..." Dude, how often does this guy get tickets and/or stopped by the police? I've been stopped maybe three times in my life. And I'm black. He sounds like a jackass. We live in a very generous and trusting society in many respects, thus the flexibility. Use it when you need to, but don't take advantage of it.
TDAnderson 13y ago
I bet this lously little "veteran" is going to cry once someone runs over their child at a traffic light. Freedom FTW!

23 points by bado 13y ago

Very interesting. The only thing I don't get is that if the government knows it can't enforce these red-light and speeding camera tickets, why implement them? Is it really because they know that the majority of people will just pay and not fight it?

IbJacked 13y ago
Yes, exactly that. It's a sizable revenue stream.
- TDAnderson 13y ago
  Some jurisdictions logically allow (and use) for front shots of the car - solves every issue at stake. Not sure if the guy installing the camera was not the brightest, or DC laws are on this one at fault.

jacknews 13y ago

Um, so was this guy actually driving his car when it was photographed speeding, or not? He doesn't say, but I'm guessing yes. And so this post is simply a tip on how to break the law and get away with it? That may be fine (sorry!) if it were a useless and unfair law[1]. Perhaps that is the case with speed limits on some sections of road, which seem designed to gather revenue rather than enhance safety. But in general I find speeding to be a fairly selfish and not very useful crime. It doesn't really speed journey times significantly, but puts other road users at greater risk of iinjury or even death. -- [1] It may be ok to ignore stupid laws, under some moral frameworks. Though, if you're not going to follow the actual law, what are you going to follow? How does society function when people have different ideas of right?

coralreef 13y ago
Its protest against unfair implementation. You can't charge a person with a crime when you can't even identify that person. But thats what the government is doing. And people are scared enough (or ignorant of their rights) that they simply submit.
- doughj3 13y ago
  People aren't "scared enough" that they submit, they submit because they have been caught. I'm not sure what makes an automated radar with a camera any different than a state trooper holding a radar gun, can you elaborate why that's an "unfair"?
  - coralreef 13y ago
    An officer pulls you over, takes your license and registration, physically identifies you and can testify in court should you challenge the ticket.
- EpicEng 13y ago
  Yeah... unfortunately, they always get my face as I roll through red lights on right hand turns... usually talking on my cell phone.
- scoofy 13y ago
  There are many ways this isn't unfair. Driving is a privilege, not a right. If you refuse to pay the ticket, but deny your car was stolen, it would be simple enough for the state to revoke your license. Same as with failing to submit to a breathalyser can result in a suspended license. The state can simply make it your duty to monitor who drives your car.
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  A traffic citation is not a felony charge, and hence different rules apply. There is a general, and reasonable (please feel free to argue how it is unreasonable) expectation that the registered owner is the driver of the vehicle or is aware of who is driving the vehicle at any given time.

mehwoot 13y ago

How many people honestly find the attitude that "I can get away with it, therefore it is ok to do" acceptable? Yeah, they can't prove it was you, but we both know that you were speeding. Furthermore since it is your car, in 99% of cases it is either you or someone you lent your car to. Would this be different if it was a drink driving case? I'm sorry, but for all your opinion on why it's legal for you to do this, I think you're a fucking douchebag.

coralreef 13y ago
What good are your legal rights if you refuse to exercise them?
- doughj3 13y ago
  Legal rights should protect you from the government, not get you off of a crime you committed.
  - coralreef 13y ago
    Consider that in America, everything is a crime, we all commit crimes every day, from jay walking to improper lane changing to viewing pirated content on the internet. Legal rights also protect you from the a government's overzealous, overreaching, and overbearing enforcement.
- scoofy 13y ago
  I don't follow most laws because i'm afraid of jail. I follow most laws because i think they make society better, and it's my duty. Speed limits are one of the laws that i think make society better. I'd pay the ticket, not because i had to, but because i have a fucking conscience.
- mehwoot 13y ago
  Yeah, cause not using your legal rights to escape punishment when you are guilty is exactly the same as not exercising them when you are innocent. This attitude actually erodes our legal rights, because it causes police officers, judges and jurors to have less reason to think people are acting in good faith when they exercise their rights, causing innocent people to be found guilty and eventually leading to these rights being weakened by having the law change.

doughj3 13y ago

First of all, this doesn't work everywhere since some jurisdictions have joint liability for the registered owner and driver[1] and some don't care at all and the registered owner is ticketed regardless of the driver (protip- don't lend your car to people who break the law). But secondly, reading the post it seems like OP did break the law and is trying to get off on some technicality, which I admit I can't support. Sorry, don't drive like a jerk if you don't want to deal with the consequences. While fines might not discourage some people, points on the license tend to stop repeat offenders. [1] http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/auto_enforce.html http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/auto_enforce.html

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

fiatmoney 13y ago

There is a direct correspondence between: - Recording a license plate associated with some dubious activity, and then ticketing the owner of the car; and - Recording an IP address associated with some dubious activity, and suing (or worse) the person who pays for the internet connection. There is a large and schizophrenic body of law about when an owner is responsible for the operation of "their" machine, even if they're not doing the immediate operating (going all the way back to "who pays the man gored by a rented ox"). With automated systems subject to shitty algorithms the problem becomes much more acute but it is by no means a new problem.

tedks 13y ago

1. Drive a car with enough Ron Paul bumper stickers to create a local gravitational distortion and bend light away from your license plate. Which you only have because government FATCATS force you to REGISTER impeding your natural right of FREE MOTION! Fascists. 2. When issued a ticket because you were going 70 in a 45mph zone (presumably because driving as fast as possible is what segregates the Men of Action from the taker scum), respond with the most passive-aggressive note possible, citing every single Bill of Rights item (it'll be hard to connect your camera ticket to quartering, but you've got enough Ron Paul quotes to find a way). 3. After producing enough laughter to lighten the entire week of a DC government schlub and her entire cubicle farm (not to mention the years of entertainment they'll get from putting your absurd essay on the immorality of the very concept of a "speed" "limit" and the gross infringement on the natural right of man to drive as fast as possible, as far as possible, in order to demonstrate his mastery over the laws of nature just as chain-smoking demonstrated the Objectivists' mastery over fire), get waived out so that you don't fill up an hour of a judges time (again) with an "opening statement" that reads the entire Wikipedia page on Ayn Rand into the court record.

gmays 13y ago

>"Sincerely, Nathan Cox United States Army Veteran" I find it annoying when vets use their service to get out of stuff, get free stuff, etc. as if we're owed something. It's a privilege to serve and it's voluntary. Act like it. > "I am in the habit of not taking “plea deals”, and I am always in the habit of fighting my tickets...so I don’t have to go to court... I just about always record my interactions with the police..." Dude, how often does this guy get tickets and/or stopped by the police? I've been stopped maybe three times in my life. And I'm black. He sounds like a jackass. We live in a very generous and trusting society in many respects, thus the flexibility. Use it when you need to, but don't take advantage of it.

TDAnderson 13y ago

I bet this lously little "veteran" is going to cry once someone runs over their child at a traffic light. Freedom FTW!