5 ms·

I won't say it's racist but it sure looks like it. But you did say it, and its ridiculous. How exactly is this supposed to be "racist"? You don't think if Qi

I won't say it's racist but it sure looks like it. But you did say it, and its ridiculous. How exactly is this supposed to be "racist"? You don't think if Qian was Russian, and this was the 1950's that the government wouldn't have done something similar? The government can (and does) make decisions out of fear, and that's probably what was going on in this case.

beachstartup 13y ago
> You don't think if Qian was Russian, and this was the 1950's that the government wouldn't have done something similar? yeah, more or less. Wernher von Braun (1912-1977), technical director of Nazi Germany's missile program, became the United States' lead rocket engineer during the 1950s and 1960s this guy was a former nazi, AND his home country of germany was a soviet satellite state, he seemed to escape suspicion. so this guy was a nazi and a communist, but he was all good. no problems here! gee. i wonder why. there were also many soviet defectors that were never chased out of the country. this is because he was chinese, plain and simple. doesn't look like us = not one of us. that was the thinking back in the day. i wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that his accusors simply didn't think a chinese person could be smart enough to be a rocket scientist, either. people actually thought this way back in the 50s.
- yapcguy 13y ago
  It still seems to be the thinking today. Success by Asians is smeared as being the result of industrial espionage, cheating or pure luck. This drip feed of soft propaganda and sterotyping can't be good for society, when clearly many challenges remain: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-lorde-asian-boyfriend-racist-comments-20131211,0,5546151.story http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-lorde-asian-...
  - pekk 13y ago
    You seem to be denying that Chinese industrial espionage occurs...
    - yapcguy 13y ago
      Do newspapers make similar accusations of 'friendly' countries proven to conduct espionage?
      - gwern 13y ago
        You can find plenty of coverage of Israelis spying on the US for Israel. A 'friendly' country long since proven to conduct espionage.
- zhemao 13y ago
  A few of Qian's colleagues at JPL were also from countries under Communist control and they were never under suspicion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_von_K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_von_K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n So yeah, pretty much. From commie country + not white = commie.
  - ryanhuff 13y ago
    That doesn't explain all of the "white" people that were investigated (and black listed) during the "Second Red Scare" of the 1950's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
- gwern 13y ago
  > this guy was a former nazi, AND his home country of germany was a soviet satellite state, he seemed to escape suspicion. so this guy was a nazi and a communist, but he was all good. no problems here! gee. i wonder why. Maybe you should reread your comment. He was 'a nazi and a communist'? That's quite a trick. (von Braun and the other Nazis were trusted precisely because they were so virulently anti-Communist and there was, after all, western Germany, which I see you omit when you describe his 'home country' as being 'a soviet satellite state'...)
  - beachstartup 13y ago
    yes. a skilled prosecutor or persecutor could easily persuade an audience of either one, possibly both, at different points in time. MANY nazis went on to become communists in east germany once the soviets moved in. they were, in fact, BOTH NAZIS AND COMMUNISTS. i take it you've never really sat down and thought through some of your assumptions of the history of ww2 / europe / asia / america. i urge you to do so one day. it can be quite stimulating. for example, did you know china was an ally in world war 2, while japan was an enemy? crazy, i know.
    - gwern 13y ago
      > i take it you've never really sat down and thought through some of your assumptions of the history of ww2 / europe / asia / america. i urge you to do so one day. it can be quite stimulating. I enjoy your condescension. It reminds me of why on Lesswrong, we say 'politics is the mindkiller'. Here we have a simple situation in which people with foreign ties often become spies and this justifies extra investigation, and people are going berserk and engaged in all sort of motivated reasoning. > for example, did you know china was an ally in world war 2, while japan was an enemy? Yes. I have more shocking information for you: Soviet Russia was an ally in WWII too.
      - beachstartup 13y ago
        ah of course. lesswrong, the largest circle jerk on the internet.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

beachstartup 13y ago

> You don't think if Qian was Russian, and this was the 1950's that the government wouldn't have done something similar? yeah, more or less. Wernher von Braun (1912-1977), technical director of Nazi Germany's missile program, became the United States' lead rocket engineer during the 1950s and 1960s this guy was a former nazi, AND his home country of germany was a soviet satellite state, he seemed to escape suspicion. so this guy was a nazi and a communist, but he was all good. no problems here! gee. i wonder why. there were also many soviet defectors that were never chased out of the country. this is because he was chinese, plain and simple. doesn't look like us = not one of us. that was the thinking back in the day. i wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that his accusors simply didn't think a chinese person could be smart enough to be a rocket scientist, either. people actually thought this way back in the 50s.

yapcguy 13y ago
It still seems to be the thinking today. Success by Asians is smeared as being the result of industrial espionage, cheating or pure luck. This drip feed of soft propaganda and sterotyping can't be good for society, when clearly many challenges remain: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-lorde-asian-boyfriend-racist-comments-20131211,0,5546151.story http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-lorde-asian-...
- pekk 13y ago
  You seem to be denying that Chinese industrial espionage occurs...
  - yapcguy 13y ago
    Do newspapers make similar accusations of 'friendly' countries proven to conduct espionage?
    - gwern 13y ago
      You can find plenty of coverage of Israelis spying on the US for Israel. A 'friendly' country long since proven to conduct espionage.
zhemao 13y ago
A few of Qian's colleagues at JPL were also from countries under Communist control and they were never under suspicion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_von_K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_von_K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n So yeah, pretty much. From commie country + not white = commie.
- ryanhuff 13y ago
  That doesn't explain all of the "white" people that were investigated (and black listed) during the "Second Red Scare" of the 1950's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
gwern 13y ago
> this guy was a former nazi, AND his home country of germany was a soviet satellite state, he seemed to escape suspicion. so this guy was a nazi and a communist, but he was all good. no problems here! gee. i wonder why. Maybe you should reread your comment. He was 'a nazi and a communist'? That's quite a trick. (von Braun and the other Nazis were trusted precisely because they were so virulently anti-Communist and there was, after all, western Germany, which I see you omit when you describe his 'home country' as being 'a soviet satellite state'...)
- beachstartup 13y ago
  yes. a skilled prosecutor or persecutor could easily persuade an audience of either one, possibly both, at different points in time. MANY nazis went on to become communists in east germany once the soviets moved in. they were, in fact, BOTH NAZIS AND COMMUNISTS. i take it you've never really sat down and thought through some of your assumptions of the history of ww2 / europe / asia / america. i urge you to do so one day. it can be quite stimulating. for example, did you know china was an ally in world war 2, while japan was an enemy? crazy, i know.
  - gwern 13y ago
    > i take it you've never really sat down and thought through some of your assumptions of the history of ww2 / europe / asia / america. i urge you to do so one day. it can be quite stimulating. I enjoy your condescension. It reminds me of why on Lesswrong, we say 'politics is the mindkiller'. Here we have a simple situation in which people with foreign ties often become spies and this justifies extra investigation, and people are going berserk and engaged in all sort of motivated reasoning. > for example, did you know china was an ally in world war 2, while japan was an enemy? Yes. I have more shocking information for you: Soviet Russia was an ally in WWII too.
    - beachstartup 13y ago
      ah of course. lesswrong, the largest circle jerk on the internet.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]