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Two wrongs does not make one right ... arguments like "they started" may be heard in a kindergartens playground but I think it's reasonable to hold USA to highe

by np422 13y ago

Two wrongs does not make one right ... arguments like "they started" may be heard in a kindergartens playground but I think it's reasonable to hold USA to higher standards than that. And as for the conditions at Guantanamo, I hope that "enhanced interrogation techniques", water boarding and similar, isn't used all that frequently in the US penal system.

berntb 13y ago
Uhh... If you don't sign and follow the conventions, I thought you weren't protected by them? And for the US prison system, Google stop prison rape.
berntb 13y ago
Not in a hurry now. Your point is that democratic countries should behave better than the international treaties they sign, even if it will result in dead citizens of those countries. And you compare with children, to give "weight" to your argument? Sigh...
- np422 13y ago
  Feel free to call me an idealist, but I do think that the base foundation for a democracy such as a fair trail before imprisonment and non-use of torture should extend not only to citizens but to all people.
  - berntb 13y ago
    Where to start? :-( The point with democracies is that they take input from their citizens, or the leadership will get kicked out. The point with terrorism is to scare people, mainly in democracies. If the terrorists succeed in scaring voters enough, then the politicians will throw out the law book and all other concerns (see Germany, UK, Spain, Israel, USA, etc) because they want to get reelected above anything else... What you ask for go against the central interests of the involved parties. I might also note that your moral world view is based on living inside a society with a state violence monopoly, in a democracy. If you go outside that, the attitude is ... well, read up on clan societies yourself. A typical example is when Israel did one sided peace gestures -- it was taken as signs of weakness and attacks increased (leaving south Libanon and Gaza). tl;dr: You're not naive, you just don't think. This is HackerNews, please start.

by np422 13y ago

berntb 13y ago

Uhh... If you don't sign and follow the conventions, I thought you weren't protected by them? And for the US prison system, Google stop prison rape.

berntb 13y ago

Not in a hurry now. Your point is that democratic countries should behave better than the international treaties they sign, even if it will result in dead citizens of those countries. And you compare with children, to give "weight" to your argument? Sigh...

np422 13y ago
Feel free to call me an idealist, but I do think that the base foundation for a democracy such as a fair trail before imprisonment and non-use of torture should extend not only to citizens but to all people.
- berntb 13y ago
  Where to start? :-( The point with democracies is that they take input from their citizens, or the leadership will get kicked out. The point with terrorism is to scare people, mainly in democracies. If the terrorists succeed in scaring voters enough, then the politicians will throw out the law book and all other concerns (see Germany, UK, Spain, Israel, USA, etc) because they want to get reelected above anything else... What you ask for go against the central interests of the involved parties. I might also note that your moral world view is based on living inside a society with a state violence monopoly, in a democracy. If you go outside that, the attitude is ... well, read up on clan societies yourself. A typical example is when Israel did one sided peace gestures -- it was taken as signs of weakness and attacks increased (leaving south Libanon and Gaza). tl;dr: You're not naive, you just don't think. This is HackerNews, please start.