4 ms·

If that's not appealing, then Linux works great on Apple laptops. Yep. Also, as an aside (relevant because hardware quality is an important factor no matter w

If that's not appealing, then Linux works great on Apple laptops. Yep. Also, as an aside (relevant because hardware quality is an important factor no matter what OS you have installed): After 15 years of wrestling with non-Apple hardware, I bought a MacBook Pro in 2008, and another one in 2011. I tried using a PC laptop from work a couple of months ago, and I was shocked at how terrible the build quality was. A brand new laptop should not squeak when you use the keyboard or trackpad. Nor should it crash randomly once a day. After six years of pain-free living with the Mac, I have no sympathy for those that complain about PCs but won't switch.

jamesbritt 13y ago
What is a "PC laptop"? There are numerous companies that make laptops; what sense does it make to write them all off because some of them make junk?
kunai 13y ago
I see you haven't used a ThinkPad. This is the same bullshit logical fallacy that keeps me firmly opposed to modern Macs. You think, that somehow, a $300 PC will be WORSE than a $1299 MacBook, and that ALL PCs are somehow terrible in build quality. And then again more bullshit about Windows crashing twice a day. Yeah, maybe, if you have some crappy third-party wireless card with a driver written by some corporate intern in Pascal 18 years ago. People like you are why my Air is sitting in my closet and why I'm still using a PowerBook G4 in 2013.
- rdtsc 13y ago
  Ah ThinkPads. My almost 8 year old ThinkPad still chugging along. Replaced its keyboard (as kid tore off one of the keys and broke it). Had it in a backpack traveling all of the place. Beat up. Fan go too clogged with crap, had to replace that. Put an SSD drive in it. But I still like it. Like the feel of the keyboard. Case is solid and lightweight as hell. Very impressed. It was my first ThinkPad. Also like the little joystick mouse thingy (also called a nipple mouse). The matte screen. And the relatively good screen resolution for such an old machine (1400*1050). Even newest laptops 8 years later often have a lower resolution than that.
- antiterra 13y ago
  > People like you are why my Air is sitting in my closet and why I'm still using a PowerBook G4 in 2013. How does that in any way follow from what you said, and what do you even mean?
  - kunai 13y ago
    Well, really, it doesn't. Sorry for not making my point as clear as it should have been. Essentially, this whole point that Windows laptops have no good ideas to be gleaned from and that Apple is God is making computers worse. I don't use the Air because it represents everything I hate about Apple: locked-down, stripped-down, un-customizable, unconfigurable, and untenable. Yes, it's damn pretty, but I don't just want pretty. I want pretty, fast, and functional. The PowerBook, and later, the 2006/7/8-era MacBook Pros, represent everything I love about Apple: well-designed, comfortable, functional, easy to use, and post-purchase upgradable. Apple used to produce machines that were like that, but ever since Ive's been at the omnipresent helm of hardware design, everything I used to love about Apple's machines has gone down the river, so to speak. Yes, the new Mac Pro is exceptionally beautiful on a desk next to a huge 30" 4K monitor, but it doesn't have the functionality necessary to be called a Mac Pro. Studios need the expandability provided by PCI-e. TB still has too much latency to be able to be considered against true internal slot expansion. The Retina MacBook Pro is gorgeous, but it doesn't have an optical drive, so putting your high-quality lossless media on it gets to be a pain. It also doesn't have upgradable memory, or even a user-replaceable battery, two things that would be easily engineered if this "0.02mm thinner is better" mentality would die. But, hey, you can't please everyone. I bet I'm going to be that guy with a 20-year-old computer who's running nothing but a shell and complaining about how the transparent, glass-screened, ultra-thin tablets of the future don't have user-replaceable hard drives.
    - maxharris 13y ago
      and that Apple is God This is not my view at all. I would buy from any vendor that's willing to drop legacy features such as upgradability in favor of improving the device for people. Apple is the only company that currently does that, so that's why I think their stuff is so hot. I was wishing for a 15" portable without optical storage for years before Apple delivered it with the current retina MacBook Pro model. But, hey, you can't please everyone. I bet I'm going to be that guy with a 20-year-old computer who's running nothing but a shell and complaining about how the transparent, glass-screened, ultra-thin tablets of the future don't have user-replaceable hard drives. If you can think far enough to see this and formulate it in a sentence, as you have just done, then you don't have to become that guy. When you find yourself at odds with the world, you shouldn't instantly capitulate. But you should be ready to try to find out why people have a different view, and to change if what you find out necessitates it. Back in the late 90s, I had a similar kind of animosity toward programming for the web. At the time, I thought Javascript was garbage, and traditional desktop apps would rule forever. Because I wasn't willing to actually look at the aspects of reality that were pertinent, the startup I did literally missed the web, which is one of the reasons it failed. (We used the browser as just a way to put up brochures about the software we were writing.) Now I write web apps for a living. Don't get boxed in by your own stale, unchallenged assumptions about the outside world. Test them.
- kmlymi 13y ago
  Wait, you have both a MacBook Air and a PowerBook and you're using the PowerBook? But that aside, I think the ThinkPad is great. I might try that for my next purchase, if the specs are comparable by the time my current laptop becomes obsolete.
- FigBug 13y ago
  What does this post even mean? You bought an Air but won't use it, instead using 8+ year old computer, because random people on the internet talk trash about PC laptops? I don't get it.
- celerity 13y ago
  People like him are why you are using a slow crappy computer all the while you have a $1200 fast, well built computer in your closet? What?
- keithpeter 13y ago
  "People like you are why my Air is sitting in my closet and why I'm still using a PowerBook G4 in 2013." I'm all for recycled hardware, but what a strange thing to do to leave a newer machine with current vendor supported OS in the cupboard.
- maxharris 13y ago
  Some ThinkPads are nice, but they are pretty rare. No one at my workplace has one. Around here, people have really nice Macs or really crummy PC laptops. Every year, a few people switch, and this process has now reached the point where there are more Macs than PCs. Aside from upgrades, most people don't ever install new operating systems onto their computers. (Heck, I've stopped doing that myself.) I don't blame people for choosing things they don't have to futz with just to get to a place where they can get things done. That's why they skip right over Lenovo nowadays.
CSDude 13y ago
Why build quality of a laptop is important, for nothing but heat? It is not a car, or a house. It would be nice if it would be durable, but it shouldn't cost you so much extra cash. I have used many plastic body laptops and the only issue I had is that the painting on one of them got scratched easily. The build quality requirement is over-concerned. For mostly immoving use (unlike cell phones) I don't really understand why it matters so much.
- maxharris 13y ago
  Maybe you don't move your laptop around much, but most people do. People use laptops on the couch, in coffee shops, at work, in bed (maybe that's not advisable, but they do it anyway). If it squeaks every time you go somewhere new, and you're used to something that doesn't squeak, you'll notice.

jamesbritt 13y ago

What is a "PC laptop"? There are numerous companies that make laptops; what sense does it make to write them all off because some of them make junk?

kunai 13y ago

I see you haven't used a ThinkPad. This is the same bullshit logical fallacy that keeps me firmly opposed to modern Macs. You think, that somehow, a $300 PC will be WORSE than a $1299 MacBook, and that ALL PCs are somehow terrible in build quality. And then again more bullshit about Windows crashing twice a day. Yeah, maybe, if you have some crappy third-party wireless card with a driver written by some corporate intern in Pascal 18 years ago. People like you are why my Air is sitting in my closet and why I'm still using a PowerBook G4 in 2013.

rdtsc 13y ago
Ah ThinkPads. My almost 8 year old ThinkPad still chugging along. Replaced its keyboard (as kid tore off one of the keys and broke it). Had it in a backpack traveling all of the place. Beat up. Fan go too clogged with crap, had to replace that. Put an SSD drive in it. But I still like it. Like the feel of the keyboard. Case is solid and lightweight as hell. Very impressed. It was my first ThinkPad. Also like the little joystick mouse thingy (also called a nipple mouse). The matte screen. And the relatively good screen resolution for such an old machine (1400*1050). Even newest laptops 8 years later often have a lower resolution than that.
antiterra 13y ago
> People like you are why my Air is sitting in my closet and why I'm still using a PowerBook G4 in 2013. How does that in any way follow from what you said, and what do you even mean?
- kunai 13y ago
  Well, really, it doesn't. Sorry for not making my point as clear as it should have been. Essentially, this whole point that Windows laptops have no good ideas to be gleaned from and that Apple is God is making computers worse. I don't use the Air because it represents everything I hate about Apple: locked-down, stripped-down, un-customizable, unconfigurable, and untenable. Yes, it's damn pretty, but I don't just want pretty. I want pretty, fast, and functional. The PowerBook, and later, the 2006/7/8-era MacBook Pros, represent everything I love about Apple: well-designed, comfortable, functional, easy to use, and post-purchase upgradable. Apple used to produce machines that were like that, but ever since Ive's been at the omnipresent helm of hardware design, everything I used to love about Apple's machines has gone down the river, so to speak. Yes, the new Mac Pro is exceptionally beautiful on a desk next to a huge 30" 4K monitor, but it doesn't have the functionality necessary to be called a Mac Pro. Studios need the expandability provided by PCI-e. TB still has too much latency to be able to be considered against true internal slot expansion. The Retina MacBook Pro is gorgeous, but it doesn't have an optical drive, so putting your high-quality lossless media on it gets to be a pain. It also doesn't have upgradable memory, or even a user-replaceable battery, two things that would be easily engineered if this "0.02mm thinner is better" mentality would die. But, hey, you can't please everyone. I bet I'm going to be that guy with a 20-year-old computer who's running nothing but a shell and complaining about how the transparent, glass-screened, ultra-thin tablets of the future don't have user-replaceable hard drives.
  - maxharris 13y ago
    and that Apple is God This is not my view at all. I would buy from any vendor that's willing to drop legacy features such as upgradability in favor of improving the device for people. Apple is the only company that currently does that, so that's why I think their stuff is so hot. I was wishing for a 15" portable without optical storage for years before Apple delivered it with the current retina MacBook Pro model. But, hey, you can't please everyone. I bet I'm going to be that guy with a 20-year-old computer who's running nothing but a shell and complaining about how the transparent, glass-screened, ultra-thin tablets of the future don't have user-replaceable hard drives. If you can think far enough to see this and formulate it in a sentence, as you have just done, then you don't have to become that guy. When you find yourself at odds with the world, you shouldn't instantly capitulate. But you should be ready to try to find out why people have a different view, and to change if what you find out necessitates it. Back in the late 90s, I had a similar kind of animosity toward programming for the web. At the time, I thought Javascript was garbage, and traditional desktop apps would rule forever. Because I wasn't willing to actually look at the aspects of reality that were pertinent, the startup I did literally missed the web, which is one of the reasons it failed. (We used the browser as just a way to put up brochures about the software we were writing.) Now I write web apps for a living. Don't get boxed in by your own stale, unchallenged assumptions about the outside world. Test them.
kmlymi 13y ago
Wait, you have both a MacBook Air and a PowerBook and you're using the PowerBook? But that aside, I think the ThinkPad is great. I might try that for my next purchase, if the specs are comparable by the time my current laptop becomes obsolete.
FigBug 13y ago
What does this post even mean? You bought an Air but won't use it, instead using 8+ year old computer, because random people on the internet talk trash about PC laptops? I don't get it.
celerity 13y ago
People like him are why you are using a slow crappy computer all the while you have a $1200 fast, well built computer in your closet? What?
keithpeter 13y ago
"People like you are why my Air is sitting in my closet and why I'm still using a PowerBook G4 in 2013." I'm all for recycled hardware, but what a strange thing to do to leave a newer machine with current vendor supported OS in the cupboard.
maxharris 13y ago
Some ThinkPads are nice, but they are pretty rare. No one at my workplace has one. Around here, people have really nice Macs or really crummy PC laptops. Every year, a few people switch, and this process has now reached the point where there are more Macs than PCs. Aside from upgrades, most people don't ever install new operating systems onto their computers. (Heck, I've stopped doing that myself.) I don't blame people for choosing things they don't have to futz with just to get to a place where they can get things done. That's why they skip right over Lenovo nowadays.

CSDude 13y ago

Why build quality of a laptop is important, for nothing but heat? It is not a car, or a house. It would be nice if it would be durable, but it shouldn't cost you so much extra cash. I have used many plastic body laptops and the only issue I had is that the painting on one of them got scratched easily. The build quality requirement is over-concerned. For mostly immoving use (unlike cell phones) I don't really understand why it matters so much.

maxharris 13y ago
Maybe you don't move your laptop around much, but most people do. People use laptops on the couch, in coffee shops, at work, in bed (maybe that's not advisable, but they do it anyway). If it squeaks every time you go somewhere new, and you're used to something that doesn't squeak, you'll notice.