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The Taliban side didn't follow any kind of war laws. What legal protection does the POWs of Guantanamo really have? For instance, afaik POWs from lawful sides

by berntb 13y ago

The Taliban side didn't follow any kind of war laws. What legal protection does the POWs of Guantanamo really have? For instance, afaik POWs from lawful sides in conflicts can be kept until the conflicts are over. The Afghan war is still raging, arguably. And the Guantanamo conditions are hardly much worse than the horrid US prison system. I have seen this subject discussed, but never in a serious way. E.g. please don't write that they should be treated as civilians or something, the point of the Geneva conventions etc was to give POWs some protection, it is just stupid to then argue that to ignore those laws would give better protection. (And I have no idea how many of the people at Guantanamo are innocent, as dragonwriter claims to know. The people making claims on that subject aren't exactly to be trusted if they really would know!) Sigh, I guess I deserve downvotes for the stupidity of asking a tricky legal question on newsYC which doesn't have to do with startups. :-)

np422 13y ago
Two wrongs does not make one right ... arguments like "they started" may be heard in a kindergartens playground but I think it's reasonable to hold USA to higher standards than that. And as for the conditions at Guantanamo, I hope that "enhanced interrogation techniques", water boarding and similar, isn't used all that frequently in the US penal system.
- berntb 13y ago
  Uhh... If you don't sign and follow the conventions, I thought you weren't protected by them? And for the US prison system, Google stop prison rape.
- berntb 13y ago
  Not in a hurry now. Your point is that democratic countries should behave better than the international treaties they sign, even if it will result in dead citizens of those countries. And you compare with children, to give "weight" to your argument? Sigh...
  - np422 13y ago
    Feel free to call me an idealist, but I do think that the base foundation for a democracy such as a fair trail before imprisonment and non-use of torture should extend not only to citizens but to all people.
    - berntb 13y ago
      Where to start? :-( The point with democracies is that they take input from their citizens, or the leadership will get kicked out. The point with terrorism is to scare people, mainly in democracies. If the terrorists succeed in scaring voters enough, then the politicians will throw out the law book and all other concerns (see Germany, UK, Spain, Israel, USA, etc) because they want to get reelected above anything else... What you ask for go against the central interests of the involved parties. I might also note that your moral world view is based on living inside a society with a state violence monopoly, in a democracy. If you go outside that, the attitude is ... well, read up on clan societies yourself. A typical example is when Israel did one sided peace gestures -- it was taken as signs of weakness and attacks increased (leaving south Libanon and Gaza). tl;dr: You're not naive, you just don't think. This is HackerNews, please start.

by berntb 13y ago

np422 13y ago

Two wrongs does not make one right ... arguments like "they started" may be heard in a kindergartens playground but I think it's reasonable to hold USA to higher standards than that. And as for the conditions at Guantanamo, I hope that "enhanced interrogation techniques", water boarding and similar, isn't used all that frequently in the US penal system.

berntb 13y ago
Uhh... If you don't sign and follow the conventions, I thought you weren't protected by them? And for the US prison system, Google stop prison rape.
berntb 13y ago
Not in a hurry now. Your point is that democratic countries should behave better than the international treaties they sign, even if it will result in dead citizens of those countries. And you compare with children, to give "weight" to your argument? Sigh...
- np422 13y ago
  Feel free to call me an idealist, but I do think that the base foundation for a democracy such as a fair trail before imprisonment and non-use of torture should extend not only to citizens but to all people.
  - berntb 13y ago
    Where to start? :-( The point with democracies is that they take input from their citizens, or the leadership will get kicked out. The point with terrorism is to scare people, mainly in democracies. If the terrorists succeed in scaring voters enough, then the politicians will throw out the law book and all other concerns (see Germany, UK, Spain, Israel, USA, etc) because they want to get reelected above anything else... What you ask for go against the central interests of the involved parties. I might also note that your moral world view is based on living inside a society with a state violence monopoly, in a democracy. If you go outside that, the attitude is ... well, read up on clan societies yourself. A typical example is when Israel did one sided peace gestures -- it was taken as signs of weakness and attacks increased (leaving south Libanon and Gaza). tl;dr: You're not naive, you just don't think. This is HackerNews, please start.