4 ms·

So was he really a spy, or the suspicions were unfounded? If latter, then the cost of losing his talent and subsequent achievements to another nation seem quite

So was he really a spy, or the suspicions were unfounded? If latter, then the cost of losing his talent and subsequent achievements to another nation seem quite high.

jjoonathan 13y ago
> his brilliant career in the United States came to a screeching halt in 1950, when the FBI accused him of being a member of a subversive organization Yep, looks like the FBI created the problem they were ineptly trying to prevent.
- salient 13y ago
  And more than a half a century later, nothing changed: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-fbi-hatched-some-crazy-terror-plots-2013-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/the-fbi-hatched-some-crazy-te...
- protomyth 13y ago
  from the article: Qian returned to Caltech in 1949 and a year later faced the accusation by two former members of the Los Angeles Police Department's "Red Squad" that he was a card-carrying member of the Communist Party. thanks LAPD
- shiven 13y ago
  And everyone needs to ask how many deserving scientists are being mistreated in a similar manner by being labeled as bogeymen with du jour-isms of our time.
  - yetanotherphd 13y ago
    James Watson for starters
beachstartup 13y ago
> So was he really a spy, or the suspicions were unfounded? for a question like this to appear on HN makes me realize why mccarthy-era tactics were popular for so long. they obviously work, even on smart people, and even in retrospect.
- malandrew 13y ago
  Yup. If they had no solid evidence, they should have left the man alone and continued to support him diligently. If you don't have proof, you have hearsay, and hearsay is not something worth persecuting someone over ever. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. If he truly was a spy, giving secrets to China, then he would have eventually been caught in the act with irrefutable proof. Willingly forcing him out with all that knowledge and talent strikes me as incredibly naïve. If someone produces excellent, productive research, and that research is leaking, simply ratchet up security around the research until the leaks stop. If there is a spy, they will eventually look around at all the security measures and consider the risk to their life and liberty to be too great to justify leaking information further. At that point, leaks will stop, but good research will continue, and that outcome provides much greater utility than the alternatives. People are often too preoccupied with persecution that they view the absence of persecuting anyone of something as wrong. In the US we are preoccupied with the idea that someone, somewhere may be doing something wrong and that we should be punishing that person because they deserve it. In this case (and in most cases) persecution didn't solve the problem, but tightened security would have.
  - jackpirate 13y ago
    >they will eventually look around at all the security measures and consider the risk to their life and liberty to be too great to justify leaking information further. This never happens in espionage. Once you go down that rabbit hole even a little, the people you're giving information to own you. They have the power to instantly ruin your life. If you stop giving them information, they inform on you. Most spies never wanted to be spies. They got sucked into a crappy situation by making one crappy decision, then they're stuck with it forever.
    - sillysaurus2 13y ago
      Sources, please, or Google terms for further reading? I find this terribly interesting.
      - 13y ago
protomyth 13y ago
"It was the stupidest thing this country ever did," former Navy Secretary Dan Kimball later said, according to Aviation Week. "He was no more a Communist than I was, and we forced him to go." I would imagine his opinion might count for something.
yeukhon 13y ago
It's hard to justify. I am not going to say he can't be a spy. As a Chinese immigrant, many things you do can make you guilty of treason. There are many things your "friends" would disagree otherwise. I say he probably wasn't interested in helping the Chinese government (both Nationalist and Communist). I think he likes being in his laboratory and doesn't care about politics. But if no evidence ever found, our government should apologize.

So was he really a spy, or the suspicions were unfounded? If latter, then the cost of losing his talent and subsequent achievements to another nation seem quite high.

jjoonathan 13y ago

> his brilliant career in the United States came to a screeching halt in 1950, when the FBI accused him of being a member of a subversive organization Yep, looks like the FBI created the problem they were ineptly trying to prevent.

salient 13y ago
And more than a half a century later, nothing changed: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-fbi-hatched-some-crazy-terror-plots-2013-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/the-fbi-hatched-some-crazy-te...
protomyth 13y ago
from the article: Qian returned to Caltech in 1949 and a year later faced the accusation by two former members of the Los Angeles Police Department's "Red Squad" that he was a card-carrying member of the Communist Party. thanks LAPD
shiven 13y ago
And everyone needs to ask how many deserving scientists are being mistreated in a similar manner by being labeled as bogeymen with du jour-isms of our time.
- yetanotherphd 13y ago
  James Watson for starters

beachstartup 13y ago

> So was he really a spy, or the suspicions were unfounded? for a question like this to appear on HN makes me realize why mccarthy-era tactics were popular for so long. they obviously work, even on smart people, and even in retrospect.

malandrew 13y ago
Yup. If they had no solid evidence, they should have left the man alone and continued to support him diligently. If you don't have proof, you have hearsay, and hearsay is not something worth persecuting someone over ever. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. If he truly was a spy, giving secrets to China, then he would have eventually been caught in the act with irrefutable proof. Willingly forcing him out with all that knowledge and talent strikes me as incredibly naïve. If someone produces excellent, productive research, and that research is leaking, simply ratchet up security around the research until the leaks stop. If there is a spy, they will eventually look around at all the security measures and consider the risk to their life and liberty to be too great to justify leaking information further. At that point, leaks will stop, but good research will continue, and that outcome provides much greater utility than the alternatives. People are often too preoccupied with persecution that they view the absence of persecuting anyone of something as wrong. In the US we are preoccupied with the idea that someone, somewhere may be doing something wrong and that we should be punishing that person because they deserve it. In this case (and in most cases) persecution didn't solve the problem, but tightened security would have.
- jackpirate 13y ago
  >they will eventually look around at all the security measures and consider the risk to their life and liberty to be too great to justify leaking information further. This never happens in espionage. Once you go down that rabbit hole even a little, the people you're giving information to own you. They have the power to instantly ruin your life. If you stop giving them information, they inform on you. Most spies never wanted to be spies. They got sucked into a crappy situation by making one crappy decision, then they're stuck with it forever.
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    Sources, please, or Google terms for further reading? I find this terribly interesting.
    - 13y ago

protomyth 13y ago

"It was the stupidest thing this country ever did," former Navy Secretary Dan Kimball later said, according to Aviation Week. "He was no more a Communist than I was, and we forced him to go." I would imagine his opinion might count for something.

yeukhon 13y ago

It's hard to justify. I am not going to say he can't be a spy. As a Chinese immigrant, many things you do can make you guilty of treason. There are many things your "friends" would disagree otherwise. I say he probably wasn't interested in helping the Chinese government (both Nationalist and Communist). I think he likes being in his laboratory and doesn't care about politics. But if no evidence ever found, our government should apologize.