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It is also convenient to redefine "totalitarianism" to simply mean aspects of government/society that you don't like. Only defining it in terms of Nazi Germany

It is also convenient to redefine "totalitarianism" to simply mean aspects of government/society that you don't like. Only defining it in terms of Nazi Germany might be too narrow, but the word still has specific meaning (total state control over most/all aspects of society). And while it's easy to see how that meaning applies to Nazi Germany, it's much less obvious how the United States fits that definition...especially compared to most of the rest of the world. I agree that your examples are generally bad things, but it's hard to see how some of them are even instances of totalitarian behavior much less representative of the overall political state of the US. It's hard for me to see much argument for the idea that the US is really totalitarian at all, much less especially totalitarian by global standards or increasingly totalitarian (the implied part of most of these arguments).

ricardobeat 13y ago
That's the gist of the article... that the state achieves control over society not via forceful means, but more subtle psychological action, political apathy and instilling materialism.
coldtea 13y ago
>Only defining it in terms of Nazi Germany might be too narrow, but the word still has specific meaning (total state control over most/all aspects of society). And while it's easy to see how that meaning applies to Nazi Germany, it's much less obvious how the United States fits that definition... Well, not that hard. For one, there's a humongous legal framework, criminalizing and turning almost all aspects of everyday life, from speech to nutrition, into a legally mediated issue. Second, a way over the top (compared to regular liberal western democracies) use of police force (and incarceration). Third, devising of new ways of tranfering powers to the state (from extended no-rights zones around airports to the Patriot Act). Fourth, total surveillance over society. Political scientists and philosophers have read totalitarianism in these (and other aspects) for ages. Putting them in constast to the relative freedoms of 1960 or 1880 paints a bleak picture. It's like slowly boiling the frog while it watches Miley Cyrus twerk.
- maratd 13y ago
  A fine argument, but you must realize that same argument has been made by many men from the very inception of the United States. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays'_Rebellion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays'_Rebellion Whatever is being suffered now by any minorities, etc. pales in comparison to what they would have been put through in the past. I don't see too many blacks being hosed down by a fire truck nowadays, do you? So let's keep things in perspective. We have a lot of work on ours hands. But it's a hell of a lot less work than we had in the past.

ricardobeat 13y ago

That's the gist of the article... that the state achieves control over society not via forceful means, but more subtle psychological action, political apathy and instilling materialism.

coldtea 13y ago

>Only defining it in terms of Nazi Germany might be too narrow, but the word still has specific meaning (total state control over most/all aspects of society). And while it's easy to see how that meaning applies to Nazi Germany, it's much less obvious how the United States fits that definition... Well, not that hard. For one, there's a humongous legal framework, criminalizing and turning almost all aspects of everyday life, from speech to nutrition, into a legally mediated issue. Second, a way over the top (compared to regular liberal western democracies) use of police force (and incarceration). Third, devising of new ways of tranfering powers to the state (from extended no-rights zones around airports to the Patriot Act). Fourth, total surveillance over society. Political scientists and philosophers have read totalitarianism in these (and other aspects) for ages. Putting them in constast to the relative freedoms of 1960 or 1880 paints a bleak picture. It's like slowly boiling the frog while it watches Miley Cyrus twerk.

maratd 13y ago
A fine argument, but you must realize that same argument has been made by many men from the very inception of the United States. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays'_Rebellion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays'_Rebellion Whatever is being suffered now by any minorities, etc. pales in comparison to what they would have been put through in the past. I don't see too many blacks being hosed down by a fire truck nowadays, do you? So let's keep things in perspective. We have a lot of work on ours hands. But it's a hell of a lot less work than we had in the past.