4 ms·

It's not misuse - it's a political concept, described by Wolin, a well known and respected academic in the field most thoroughly in his book "Democracy Incorpor

It's not misuse - it's a political concept, described by Wolin, a well known and respected academic in the field most thoroughly in his book "Democracy Incorporated - Managed Inverted Totalitarianism": http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverted-Totalitarianism/dp/0691135665/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1387021143&sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverte... I mean, if this is misuse, you'd better nix nihilism, liberalism, socialism, and all the rest, as those are also just "opinions".

jpttsn 13y ago
While all "isms" are ideas, the interesting ones are shared by enough people to enhance communication. Inventing new "isms" to market fringe ideas should be discouraged on this basis; it makes things harder to understand.
- BrokenPipe 13y ago
  Doesn't sound like frige ideas to me.
- jgg 13y ago
  How should this political theory be presented, in your mind?
  - jpttsn 13y ago
    Let the author present it however he wants. Wait for it to get traction before using his personal vocabulary on Wikipedia.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >Inventing new "isms" to market fringe ideas should be discouraged on this basis; it makes things harder to understand. Yes, we clearly should have stopped inventing new terms around Plato's time. I mean what's these fancy new -isms, like Anarchism, Marxism, et al?
  - jpttsn 13y ago
    If I say Marxism, I can skip the explanation. People know what Marxism is. It enhances communication. If I say Inverted Totalitarianism, I have to explain what I mean by that. Based on that, Wikipedia should not be the second step after an author invents a word. Marxism didn't end up in the Encyclopaedia as soon as Marx published. Useful -isms are not established by authors, but by people who discuss them.
    - judk 13y ago
      If debate here is any guide, "Marxism" is not a well understood term than enhances ccommunication.
      - jpttsn 13y ago
        I don't know much about Marxism. Here, it's just a token -ism, as an example. Context matters of course; even so many -isms are ambiguous and should be avoided.
    - coldtea 13y ago
      >If I say Marxism, I can skip the explanation. People know what Marxism is. It enhances communication. You missed my whole point, which is that by your own standards, "marxism" shouldn't have entered the language in the first place, since in 1880 you couldn't "skip the explanation" and people didn't know what marxism was. In short: that some terms are established and widespread is no argument against creating and using newer terms. The establised terms also began as fringe and unknown themselves. That's how language is enriched. >Based on that, Wikipedia should not be the second step after an author invents a word. Marxism didn't end up in the Encyclopaedia as soon as Marx published. Well the 11th edition of Britannica (1910) has an entry, a mere 23 years before the first use of the term. We are 10 year from Wolin's work (2003), which makes it quite comparable, if not sluggish compated to Britannica, given that they didn't have as fast tranfer of information as we have today, nor as easy a process of making new edition as online publishing offers. >Useful -isms are not established by authors, but by people who discuss them. Nope, that's a populist argument. Usually nobody discusses most -isms and philosophical terms but a small percentage of scholars, authors and intellectuals. Still they appear in dictionaries, encyclopaedias, wikipedia, and elsewhere.
rainsford 13y ago
There's nothing wrong with Wikipedia pages covering political concepts, this article is just a very bad example of how to do that well. The article is about something that is not a widely accepted concept, only cites the primary source that defined the concept, is at least as focused on arguing that the US (and only the US) is an example of the concept as it is on defining the concept, and reads like a political OP-ED written in the third person. It would be like if the article about socialism only sourced books by Bill O'Reilly and was all about how President Obama is definitely a socialist. Even accepting that Wolin is more academic and respected than O'Reilly (I really have no idea), I don't think this meets the bar of encyclopedia entry.

jpttsn 13y ago

While all "isms" are ideas, the interesting ones are shared by enough people to enhance communication. Inventing new "isms" to market fringe ideas should be discouraged on this basis; it makes things harder to understand.

BrokenPipe 13y ago
Doesn't sound like frige ideas to me.
jgg 13y ago
How should this political theory be presented, in your mind?
- jpttsn 13y ago
  Let the author present it however he wants. Wait for it to get traction before using his personal vocabulary on Wikipedia.
coldtea 13y ago
>Inventing new "isms" to market fringe ideas should be discouraged on this basis; it makes things harder to understand. Yes, we clearly should have stopped inventing new terms around Plato's time. I mean what's these fancy new -isms, like Anarchism, Marxism, et al?
- jpttsn 13y ago
  If I say Marxism, I can skip the explanation. People know what Marxism is. It enhances communication. If I say Inverted Totalitarianism, I have to explain what I mean by that. Based on that, Wikipedia should not be the second step after an author invents a word. Marxism didn't end up in the Encyclopaedia as soon as Marx published. Useful -isms are not established by authors, but by people who discuss them.
  - judk 13y ago
    If debate here is any guide, "Marxism" is not a well understood term than enhances ccommunication.
    - jpttsn 13y ago
      I don't know much about Marxism. Here, it's just a token -ism, as an example. Context matters of course; even so many -isms are ambiguous and should be avoided.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >If I say Marxism, I can skip the explanation. People know what Marxism is. It enhances communication. You missed my whole point, which is that by your own standards, "marxism" shouldn't have entered the language in the first place, since in 1880 you couldn't "skip the explanation" and people didn't know what marxism was. In short: that some terms are established and widespread is no argument against creating and using newer terms. The establised terms also began as fringe and unknown themselves. That's how language is enriched. >Based on that, Wikipedia should not be the second step after an author invents a word. Marxism didn't end up in the Encyclopaedia as soon as Marx published. Well the 11th edition of Britannica (1910) has an entry, a mere 23 years before the first use of the term. We are 10 year from Wolin's work (2003), which makes it quite comparable, if not sluggish compated to Britannica, given that they didn't have as fast tranfer of information as we have today, nor as easy a process of making new edition as online publishing offers. >Useful -isms are not established by authors, but by people who discuss them. Nope, that's a populist argument. Usually nobody discusses most -isms and philosophical terms but a small percentage of scholars, authors and intellectuals. Still they appear in dictionaries, encyclopaedias, wikipedia, and elsewhere.

rainsford 13y ago

There's nothing wrong with Wikipedia pages covering political concepts, this article is just a very bad example of how to do that well. The article is about something that is not a widely accepted concept, only cites the primary source that defined the concept, is at least as focused on arguing that the US (and only the US) is an example of the concept as it is on defining the concept, and reads like a political OP-ED written in the third person. It would be like if the article about socialism only sourced books by Bill O'Reilly and was all about how President Obama is definitely a socialist. Even accepting that Wolin is more academic and respected than O'Reilly (I really have no idea), I don't think this meets the bar of encyclopedia entry.