5 ms·

I think the issue here is: Kyle: "given Rap Genius's somewhat questionable history" Tom: " ... if you think we've said stupid things and have been obnoxious /

by sheetjs 13y ago

I think the issue here is: Kyle: "given Rap Genius's somewhat questionable history" Tom: " ... if you think we've said stupid things and have been obnoxious / wack ..." Kyle: "... I've no patience for rape jokes or your problems with queues." Tom's reply reflects a lack of appreciation for the inappropriateness of a rape joke. AFAICT most decent human beings frown upon jokes about rape. And while you may find rape jokes entertaining, I definitely wouldn't want to associate myself with the behavior. More generally, we (the technology community) shouldn't be condoning these remarks. Sadly, this even shows up in politics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_and_pregnancy_controversies_in_United_States_elections,_2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_and_pregnancy_controversi...

overgard 13y ago
Most decent human beings realize jokes are jokes. A year old, but relevant: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-16-2012/louis-c-k- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-16-2012/louis-c-k... If you think you have a better grip on funny and appropriateness, then you're welcome to your opinion. But is anyone welcome to try to ruin someone's reputation just because you happen to disagree on something as ephemeral as a one-off joke? Do we really want to be THAT sensitive that even kidding about something is entirely verboten or you'll ruin your reputation forever? You've seriously never said something in the moment that you thought was funny at the time that you wish you could have a take back on?
- sheetjs 13y ago
  overgard: > if you think you have a better grip on funny and appropriateness If you find rape jokes funny, then yes: I and most people would believe that I have a better grip on appropriateness than you. > But is anyone welcome to try to ruin someone's reputation just because you happen to disagree on something as ephemeral as a one-off joke? It was a tweet. Tweets are public and the internet won't magically forget, especially when others have discussed the matter. First google search result for "rap genius rape joke" is http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-imma-rape-you-in-your-mouth-1177584961 http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-imma-rape-you-in-your... with a screenshot http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.png http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.p... And if truly believe that a tweet is ephemeral, then I've got a bridge to sell you :) And to be clear, RG brought it upon themselves. RG ruined their own reputations by making the tweet. This email reminded us of a previous event, but Kyle was not at all responsible for original tweet. > Do we really want to be THAT sensitive that even kidding about something is entirely verboten or you'll ruin your reputation forever? That thought process is what gives the tech community a bad name. There are certain things that a decent human being does not think to joke about, and rape is one of those things. I recommend you look into Todd Akin, who made some comments about "legitimate rape". Or Richard Mourdock, who claimed that a rape victim's pregnance is something "God intended". Guess what? Those guys probably thought the comments weren't offensive either. > You've seriously never said something in the moment that you thought was funny at the time that you wish you could have a take back on? I'm not stupid enough to joke about rape. And I'm certainly not stupid enough to make any off-color joke in a public tweet
  - recuter 13y ago
    As the late great George Carlin said: It all depends on how you construct the joke. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2a5-RrwWZ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2a5-RrwWZ8 You're not funny enough to joke about rape is all. The problem is, neither are these rapgenius guys. Don't get me wrong, I'm also grossly offended - not as a feminist, or a decent human being, just as a comedian. :)
    - Crito 13y ago
      Are you really offended "as a comedian"? Let's be real, if you are offended by a joke, it almost certainly has something to do with the content of the joke. Poor joke delivery, or just unfunny jokes, are not in and of themselves offensive, nobody is "offended" by "Why did the chicken cross the road?" Bad jokes aren't offensive, bad jokes that are also tackless may be however.
  - overgard 13y ago
    You know, I've made a point in my life of avoiding people that are actively looking to be "offended", because they always find a way to do so. RG said something publicly that's probably been uttered a million times between friends bantering. I've heard things that are a thousand times worse. It's unfortunate that they chose the wrong channel for that sort of utterance, but frankly the only people "hurt" by what they said were the people that chose to be "hurt" by it. Let's be clear, being "offended" is always a choice. There's 7 billion people on the planet, you'll never be able to avoid things you dislike, but you have a choice in how you deal with it. I choose to respect other people's freedom of expression, and interact with people I think add value. I don't have to throw a public temper tantrum if someone has wildly different values. (I view posting private correspondence publicly to try to shame someone as being equivalent to a temper tantrum) I hear people say a lot of things I think are /stupid/, but I never feel a need to tell them that they're "offensive", I just don't deal with those people when I realize our values don't align. So I find the idea that RG broke some obvious "code" that "everyone" agrees to is laughable. Clearly, not "everyone" agrees with your very sensitive sense of humor. The way I see it: they pissed off a bunch of people actively looking to be pissed off. My level of caring about that is pretty much zero.
newnewnew 13y ago
If that offends you, then you should never, never, never listen to rap music.
- sheetjs 13y ago
  In fact, I'd argue that some of the greatest rappers actually don't / didn't really feel the need to make light of rape. For example, here's an example from 2pac (IMO one of the greatest rappers of all time): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXwmDGJAB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXwmDGJAB8 I wonder why we take from our women Why we rape our women, do we hate our women I think it's time to kill for our women Time to heal our women, be real to our women
  - greg5green 13y ago
    You mean the same 2Pac who was sent to jail for sexual abuse? Don't get me wrong because I love 2Pac, but 2Pac's lyrics and his actions didn't always match up.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]

by sheetjs 13y ago

overgard 13y ago

Most decent human beings realize jokes are jokes. A year old, but relevant: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-16-2012/louis-c-k- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-16-2012/louis-c-k... If you think you have a better grip on funny and appropriateness, then you're welcome to your opinion. But is anyone welcome to try to ruin someone's reputation just because you happen to disagree on something as ephemeral as a one-off joke? Do we really want to be THAT sensitive that even kidding about something is entirely verboten or you'll ruin your reputation forever? You've seriously never said something in the moment that you thought was funny at the time that you wish you could have a take back on?

sheetjs 13y ago
overgard: > if you think you have a better grip on funny and appropriateness If you find rape jokes funny, then yes: I and most people would believe that I have a better grip on appropriateness than you. > But is anyone welcome to try to ruin someone's reputation just because you happen to disagree on something as ephemeral as a one-off joke? It was a tweet. Tweets are public and the internet won't magically forget, especially when others have discussed the matter. First google search result for "rap genius rape joke" is http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-imma-rape-you-in-your-mouth-1177584961 http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-imma-rape-you-in-your... with a screenshot http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.png http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.p... And if truly believe that a tweet is ephemeral, then I've got a bridge to sell you :) And to be clear, RG brought it upon themselves. RG ruined their own reputations by making the tweet. This email reminded us of a previous event, but Kyle was not at all responsible for original tweet. > Do we really want to be THAT sensitive that even kidding about something is entirely verboten or you'll ruin your reputation forever? That thought process is what gives the tech community a bad name. There are certain things that a decent human being does not think to joke about, and rape is one of those things. I recommend you look into Todd Akin, who made some comments about "legitimate rape". Or Richard Mourdock, who claimed that a rape victim's pregnance is something "God intended". Guess what? Those guys probably thought the comments weren't offensive either. > You've seriously never said something in the moment that you thought was funny at the time that you wish you could have a take back on? I'm not stupid enough to joke about rape. And I'm certainly not stupid enough to make any off-color joke in a public tweet
- recuter 13y ago
  As the late great George Carlin said: It all depends on how you construct the joke. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2a5-RrwWZ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2a5-RrwWZ8 You're not funny enough to joke about rape is all. The problem is, neither are these rapgenius guys. Don't get me wrong, I'm also grossly offended - not as a feminist, or a decent human being, just as a comedian. :)
  - Crito 13y ago
    Are you really offended "as a comedian"? Let's be real, if you are offended by a joke, it almost certainly has something to do with the content of the joke. Poor joke delivery, or just unfunny jokes, are not in and of themselves offensive, nobody is "offended" by "Why did the chicken cross the road?" Bad jokes aren't offensive, bad jokes that are also tackless may be however.
- overgard 13y ago
  You know, I've made a point in my life of avoiding people that are actively looking to be "offended", because they always find a way to do so. RG said something publicly that's probably been uttered a million times between friends bantering. I've heard things that are a thousand times worse. It's unfortunate that they chose the wrong channel for that sort of utterance, but frankly the only people "hurt" by what they said were the people that chose to be "hurt" by it. Let's be clear, being "offended" is always a choice. There's 7 billion people on the planet, you'll never be able to avoid things you dislike, but you have a choice in how you deal with it. I choose to respect other people's freedom of expression, and interact with people I think add value. I don't have to throw a public temper tantrum if someone has wildly different values. (I view posting private correspondence publicly to try to shame someone as being equivalent to a temper tantrum) I hear people say a lot of things I think are /stupid/, but I never feel a need to tell them that they're "offensive", I just don't deal with those people when I realize our values don't align. So I find the idea that RG broke some obvious "code" that "everyone" agrees to is laughable. Clearly, not "everyone" agrees with your very sensitive sense of humor. The way I see it: they pissed off a bunch of people actively looking to be pissed off. My level of caring about that is pretty much zero.

newnewnew 13y ago

If that offends you, then you should never, never, never listen to rap music.

sheetjs 13y ago
In fact, I'd argue that some of the greatest rappers actually don't / didn't really feel the need to make light of rape. For example, here's an example from 2pac (IMO one of the greatest rappers of all time): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXwmDGJAB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXwmDGJAB8 I wonder why we take from our women Why we rape our women, do we hate our women I think it's time to kill for our women Time to heal our women, be real to our women
- greg5green 13y ago
  You mean the same 2Pac who was sent to jail for sexual abuse? Don't get me wrong because I love 2Pac, but 2Pac's lyrics and his actions didn't always match up.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]