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I guess this is supposed to make rap genius look bad or something? I don't understand the context, but I don't know why you'd publicly post an email like that w

I guess this is supposed to make rap genius look bad or something? I don't understand the context, but I don't know why you'd publicly post an email like that when it seems like an earnest attempt to recruit the guy. "No thanks" would suffice. So your cultures don't align. You don't have to be a dick about it. Maybe you don't agree with rap geniuses' behavior or whatever (I think they're entertaining, personally), but posting a private email publicly seems like an incredibly low move unless both parties were cool with it from the start.

grimtrigger 13y ago
Why would an unsolicited marketing offer be considered private?
- jval 13y ago
  Fair enough you publish the unsolicited email, but when you respond and the other person responds back, and the only people in the two and from lines are yourselves, it starts to be private, at least in my view.
  - davvid 13y ago
    That may be your view, and it's a noble one, but what I've learned over the years is that no email is private, ever. Treat them all like public correspondences and you'll never get burned.
    - benihana 13y ago
      It's not like anyone said anything that got them burned. Maybe they both treated this exchange like it could become public correspondence. The point is not whether they thought it was private or not, the point is, it's a dick move to publish an email someone sends you to offer you a job.
- overgard 13y ago
  Because it wasn't marketing, it was a job opportunity. They wanted to give him money for services. To me, even if I dislike someone, if they approach me with a business opportunity I'm going to treat them with respect and dignity. Out of principle, I might decline their offer, and if I felt strongly enough I might explain why, but I'd do it in a way that's private and saves face for everyone.
  - grimtrigger 13y ago
    Offer 1: We want your time, will you trade for our money? Offer 2: We want your money, will you trade for our time? If you believe time is money, they're the same thing.
minimaxir 13y ago
Kyle's first reply was essentially "No thanks." And a simple "no thanks" likely would have elicited the same "please join!" response from RapGenius anyways.
- overgard 13y ago
  Their reply was basically "why do you have a negative impression of us?". That seems like a totally legit question. Why would you punish someone for asking that? Even if you think they're people you dislike, why would you punish someone for an earnest question like that?
  - selmnoo 13y ago
    > Why would you punish someone for asking that? Well, easy there, this wasn't a physical flogging in public or anything like that, it was just some fun ribbing -- the kind that RG founders themselves are especially fond of indulging in, (like telling Mark to "suck his dick" and saying things like "I'mma rape you in your mouth", etc.). If we're really serious about have an inclusive and welcoming culture, we as a tech community should stay away from RapGenius. Let them know there are consequences to the things they say. No-one should be rewarded after saying things like "I'mma rape you in your mouth".
    - overgard 13y ago
      It's a fun ribbing when it's in private, sure. It's another thing when it's posted publicly and #1 on hacker news.
      - sheetjs 13y ago
        The original comment was a public tweet: http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.png http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.p... I can't imagine many rape victims would describe this as a "fun ribbing"
        13y ago
seiji 13y ago
Kyle's responses at the end are brilliant. You have to shine a light on wealthy bro moron stupidheads with ingenuity and openness.
sheetjs 13y ago
I think the issue here is: Kyle: "given Rap Genius's somewhat questionable history" Tom: " ... if you think we've said stupid things and have been obnoxious / wack ..." Kyle: "... I've no patience for rape jokes or your problems with queues." Tom's reply reflects a lack of appreciation for the inappropriateness of a rape joke. AFAICT most decent human beings frown upon jokes about rape. And while you may find rape jokes entertaining, I definitely wouldn't want to associate myself with the behavior. More generally, we (the technology community) shouldn't be condoning these remarks. Sadly, this even shows up in politics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_and_pregnancy_controversies_in_United_States_elections,_2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_and_pregnancy_controversi...
- overgard 13y ago
  Most decent human beings realize jokes are jokes. A year old, but relevant: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-16-2012/louis-c-k- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-16-2012/louis-c-k... If you think you have a better grip on funny and appropriateness, then you're welcome to your opinion. But is anyone welcome to try to ruin someone's reputation just because you happen to disagree on something as ephemeral as a one-off joke? Do we really want to be THAT sensitive that even kidding about something is entirely verboten or you'll ruin your reputation forever? You've seriously never said something in the moment that you thought was funny at the time that you wish you could have a take back on?
  - sheetjs 13y ago
    overgard: > if you think you have a better grip on funny and appropriateness If you find rape jokes funny, then yes: I and most people would believe that I have a better grip on appropriateness than you. > But is anyone welcome to try to ruin someone's reputation just because you happen to disagree on something as ephemeral as a one-off joke? It was a tweet. Tweets are public and the internet won't magically forget, especially when others have discussed the matter. First google search result for "rap genius rape joke" is http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-imma-rape-you-in-your-mouth-1177584961 http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-imma-rape-you-in-your... with a screenshot http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.png http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.p... And if truly believe that a tweet is ephemeral, then I've got a bridge to sell you :) And to be clear, RG brought it upon themselves. RG ruined their own reputations by making the tweet. This email reminded us of a previous event, but Kyle was not at all responsible for original tweet. > Do we really want to be THAT sensitive that even kidding about something is entirely verboten or you'll ruin your reputation forever? That thought process is what gives the tech community a bad name. There are certain things that a decent human being does not think to joke about, and rape is one of those things. I recommend you look into Todd Akin, who made some comments about "legitimate rape". Or Richard Mourdock, who claimed that a rape victim's pregnance is something "God intended". Guess what? Those guys probably thought the comments weren't offensive either. > You've seriously never said something in the moment that you thought was funny at the time that you wish you could have a take back on? I'm not stupid enough to joke about rape. And I'm certainly not stupid enough to make any off-color joke in a public tweet

grimtrigger 13y ago

Why would an unsolicited marketing offer be considered private?

jval 13y ago
Fair enough you publish the unsolicited email, but when you respond and the other person responds back, and the only people in the two and from lines are yourselves, it starts to be private, at least in my view.
- davvid 13y ago
  That may be your view, and it's a noble one, but what I've learned over the years is that no email is private, ever. Treat them all like public correspondences and you'll never get burned.
  - benihana 13y ago
    It's not like anyone said anything that got them burned. Maybe they both treated this exchange like it could become public correspondence. The point is not whether they thought it was private or not, the point is, it's a dick move to publish an email someone sends you to offer you a job.
overgard 13y ago
Because it wasn't marketing, it was a job opportunity. They wanted to give him money for services. To me, even if I dislike someone, if they approach me with a business opportunity I'm going to treat them with respect and dignity. Out of principle, I might decline their offer, and if I felt strongly enough I might explain why, but I'd do it in a way that's private and saves face for everyone.
- grimtrigger 13y ago
  Offer 1: We want your time, will you trade for our money? Offer 2: We want your money, will you trade for our time? If you believe time is money, they're the same thing.

minimaxir 13y ago

Kyle's first reply was essentially "No thanks." And a simple "no thanks" likely would have elicited the same "please join!" response from RapGenius anyways.

overgard 13y ago
Their reply was basically "why do you have a negative impression of us?". That seems like a totally legit question. Why would you punish someone for asking that? Even if you think they're people you dislike, why would you punish someone for an earnest question like that?
- selmnoo 13y ago
  > Why would you punish someone for asking that? Well, easy there, this wasn't a physical flogging in public or anything like that, it was just some fun ribbing -- the kind that RG founders themselves are especially fond of indulging in, (like telling Mark to "suck his dick" and saying things like "I'mma rape you in your mouth", etc.). If we're really serious about have an inclusive and welcoming culture, we as a tech community should stay away from RapGenius. Let them know there are consequences to the things they say. No-one should be rewarded after saying things like "I'mma rape you in your mouth".
  - overgard 13y ago
    It's a fun ribbing when it's in private, sure. It's another thing when it's posted publicly and #1 on hacker news.
    - sheetjs 13y ago
      The original comment was a public tweet: http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.png http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.p... I can't imagine many rape victims would describe this as a "fun ribbing"
      - 13y ago

seiji 13y ago

Kyle's responses at the end are brilliant. You have to shine a light on wealthy bro moron stupidheads with ingenuity and openness.

sheetjs 13y ago

I think the issue here is: Kyle: "given Rap Genius's somewhat questionable history" Tom: " ... if you think we've said stupid things and have been obnoxious / wack ..." Kyle: "... I've no patience for rape jokes or your problems with queues." Tom's reply reflects a lack of appreciation for the inappropriateness of a rape joke. AFAICT most decent human beings frown upon jokes about rape. And while you may find rape jokes entertaining, I definitely wouldn't want to associate myself with the behavior. More generally, we (the technology community) shouldn't be condoning these remarks. Sadly, this even shows up in politics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_and_pregnancy_controversies_in_United_States_elections,_2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_and_pregnancy_controversi...

overgard 13y ago
Most decent human beings realize jokes are jokes. A year old, but relevant: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-16-2012/louis-c-k- http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-16-2012/louis-c-k... If you think you have a better grip on funny and appropriateness, then you're welcome to your opinion. But is anyone welcome to try to ruin someone's reputation just because you happen to disagree on something as ephemeral as a one-off joke? Do we really want to be THAT sensitive that even kidding about something is entirely verboten or you'll ruin your reputation forever? You've seriously never said something in the moment that you thought was funny at the time that you wish you could have a take back on?
- sheetjs 13y ago
  overgard: > if you think you have a better grip on funny and appropriateness If you find rape jokes funny, then yes: I and most people would believe that I have a better grip on appropriateness than you. > But is anyone welcome to try to ruin someone's reputation just because you happen to disagree on something as ephemeral as a one-off joke? It was a tweet. Tweets are public and the internet won't magically forget, especially when others have discussed the matter. First google search result for "rap genius rape joke" is http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-imma-rape-you-in-your-mouth-1177584961 http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-imma-rape-you-in-your... with a screenshot http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.png http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18xpcvut8ka32png/ku-xlarge.p... And if truly believe that a tweet is ephemeral, then I've got a bridge to sell you :) And to be clear, RG brought it upon themselves. RG ruined their own reputations by making the tweet. This email reminded us of a previous event, but Kyle was not at all responsible for original tweet. > Do we really want to be THAT sensitive that even kidding about something is entirely verboten or you'll ruin your reputation forever? That thought process is what gives the tech community a bad name. There are certain things that a decent human being does not think to joke about, and rape is one of those things. I recommend you look into Todd Akin, who made some comments about "legitimate rape". Or Richard Mourdock, who claimed that a rape victim's pregnance is something "God intended". Guess what? Those guys probably thought the comments weren't offensive either. > You've seriously never said something in the moment that you thought was funny at the time that you wish you could have a take back on? I'm not stupid enough to joke about rape. And I'm certainly not stupid enough to make any off-color joke in a public tweet