6 ms·

I live in a more socialist country where health care and education are free, and where we have have a good balance between work and personal time and I hope it'

I live in a more socialist country where health care and education are free, and where we have have a good balance between work and personal time and I hope it'll stay the same despite the international pressure. I don't know why "socialism" is such a bad word in the US. Probably propaganda from the rich to keep their privileges. I had the chance to live in the US for a couple of years (it was a child dream of mine to do so) and now I have much more mixed feelings about its ideology. Overall, I think I have a better life in Europe.

smtddr 13y ago
>>Probably propaganda from the rich to keep their privileges. Not probably. It's exactly that.
- swamp40 13y ago
  I can't believe no one has challenged you on this remark for 5+ hours.
- vasilipupkin 13y ago
  Not at all - a "socialist" system involves doubling taxes On the middle class - that's really tough to sell to....the middle class, shockingly
  - alan_cx 13y ago
    1) Are US taxes half EU taxes then? 2) "Middle class", do you mean working classes? 3) Why do so many people think its a choice between the two, socialism and capitalism? What people want is a sensible compromise where both systems work to service all of society's needs, instead of a single system which can only benefit one part of society. No one serious thinks pure, exclusive socialism is the answer to anything? Its not. Neither is pure exclusive capitalism. Simply, capitalism raises the money to pay for socialism to provide a useful work force and services for capitalism. We need a balance.
    - ezequiel-garzon 13y ago
      Absolutely! Although she's been politically forced, Merkel is setting up minimum eages in Germany, while Raul Castro has issued some (however mildly) free-enterprise initiatives, and something like that is coming up in China. Leave dogma to the ivory towers.
    - vasilipupkin 13y ago
      Of course, even the U.S. is not pure capitalist system - we have a multitude of programs that are design to support the poor
Theodores 13y ago
The frame of debate provided by Anglo Saxon media/politics does not allow one to think that such ideals exist or are worth striving for. We are wage slaves.
vasilipupkin 13y ago
healthcare and education in your country aren't free - they are paid for by high taxes on the middle class
- pgeorgi 13y ago
  Do you even know where the parent poster is living? Since healthcare in _my_ "socialist" (from a USA point of view) country certainly isn't generally paid for by taxes but by insurance fees. (Exception: the unemployed are covered by social security, which is an insurance system partially backed from the tax pool) The only "socialist" part here is that they make it hard to avoid the system (that is, leech off from others when you eventually get sick and end up in the ER, incurring costs higher than your net worth)
  - vasilipupkin 13y ago
    Money is fungible. Generally, the higher level of services is paid for by the higher level of overall taxation - you can call it fees or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that on average, you are left with less disposable income. This might be fine as a societal choice, but just don't think it's free.
    - yodsanklai 13y ago
      It's no free, but it's shared on everybody in a way that we don't feel it's a burden, and everybody gets access to decent healthcare without having to worry about it. "the higher level of services is paid for by the higher level of overall taxation" Not necessarily. You can also try to reduce the cost of the service. Healthcare in most European countries costs less than in the US for the same service (for instance medical acts prices can be largely controlled by the state). Honestly, I don't know much about economics. However I think it's fair to say that in that particular field, what may be great on paper may not work in practice. The theoretical models are so remote from real life that I'm not sure they provide much value. So it essentially boils down to ideology. If one has to be dogmatic, I would privilege "free" healthcare and education to private property and free market.
- 13y ago

smtddr 13y ago

>>Probably propaganda from the rich to keep their privileges. Not probably. It's exactly that.

swamp40 13y ago
I can't believe no one has challenged you on this remark for 5+ hours.
vasilipupkin 13y ago
Not at all - a "socialist" system involves doubling taxes On the middle class - that's really tough to sell to....the middle class, shockingly
- alan_cx 13y ago
  1) Are US taxes half EU taxes then? 2) "Middle class", do you mean working classes? 3) Why do so many people think its a choice between the two, socialism and capitalism? What people want is a sensible compromise where both systems work to service all of society's needs, instead of a single system which can only benefit one part of society. No one serious thinks pure, exclusive socialism is the answer to anything? Its not. Neither is pure exclusive capitalism. Simply, capitalism raises the money to pay for socialism to provide a useful work force and services for capitalism. We need a balance.
  - ezequiel-garzon 13y ago
    Absolutely! Although she's been politically forced, Merkel is setting up minimum eages in Germany, while Raul Castro has issued some (however mildly) free-enterprise initiatives, and something like that is coming up in China. Leave dogma to the ivory towers.
  - vasilipupkin 13y ago
    Of course, even the U.S. is not pure capitalist system - we have a multitude of programs that are design to support the poor

Theodores 13y ago

The frame of debate provided by Anglo Saxon media/politics does not allow one to think that such ideals exist or are worth striving for. We are wage slaves.

vasilipupkin 13y ago

healthcare and education in your country aren't free - they are paid for by high taxes on the middle class

pgeorgi 13y ago
Do you even know where the parent poster is living? Since healthcare in _my_ "socialist" (from a USA point of view) country certainly isn't generally paid for by taxes but by insurance fees. (Exception: the unemployed are covered by social security, which is an insurance system partially backed from the tax pool) The only "socialist" part here is that they make it hard to avoid the system (that is, leech off from others when you eventually get sick and end up in the ER, incurring costs higher than your net worth)
- vasilipupkin 13y ago
  Money is fungible. Generally, the higher level of services is paid for by the higher level of overall taxation - you can call it fees or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that on average, you are left with less disposable income. This might be fine as a societal choice, but just don't think it's free.
  - yodsanklai 13y ago
    It's no free, but it's shared on everybody in a way that we don't feel it's a burden, and everybody gets access to decent healthcare without having to worry about it. "the higher level of services is paid for by the higher level of overall taxation" Not necessarily. You can also try to reduce the cost of the service. Healthcare in most European countries costs less than in the US for the same service (for instance medical acts prices can be largely controlled by the state). Honestly, I don't know much about economics. However I think it's fair to say that in that particular field, what may be great on paper may not work in practice. The theoretical models are so remote from real life that I'm not sure they provide much value. So it essentially boils down to ideology. If one has to be dogmatic, I would privilege "free" healthcare and education to private property and free market.
13y ago