10 ms·

I'm so god damn tired. First Gawker, then HuffPo, and now the Guardian. "The President is so austere!". With his own money. This is who he is: http://translate

by eudox 13y ago

I'm so god damn tired. First Gawker, then HuffPo, and now the Guardian. "The President is so austere!". With his own money. This is who he is: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elobservador.com.uy%2Fnoticia%2F254697%2Faca-nadie-se-va-a-hacer-rico%2F http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=ht... "Weed!" That only the State can grow and sell (Smoking it was always legal, and buying/selling has always been and will continue to be illegal). If you think Uruguay is a "liberal dreamboat", as one Gawker article said, then please, move in. We can even exchange citizenships. If misery is your thing, then by all means, do whatever country you live in a favor, and move to Uruguay. It's not like this continent can get any worse.

glesica 13y ago
So what is actually wrong with it? Nothing you mentioned sounds bad at all (and the translation of that article seemed pretty poor, so hard to draw conclusions). I would LOVE to live in a more "socialist" country. I'd much rather be poorer in a place where my basic needs are met and I don't have to fear starvation or freezing to death if I catch an unlucky break. Instead of a rising tide lifting all boats, I'd rather lower all the boats but make sure that none of them sink.
- notanidiot5 13y ago
  Yes, because we see news reports of poor American citizens dying everyday because of starvation. Keep pushing your propaganda though.
  - smtddr 13y ago
    Don't forget, for most Americans... one unexpected hospital bill is all that stands between them and financial ruin. USA can be an okay place to be as long as you don't get sick...
    - vasilipupkin 13y ago
      Most Americans have insurance so your assertion is dubious
    - twoodfin 13y ago
      The vast majority of Americans even pre-ACA had either government-provided insurance or employer group insurance, neither of which would lead to "unexpected hospital bills". Even the existing private insurance market was pretty reliable here ("rescission" was vanishingly rare). So I'm curious how you came up with "most Americans".
- yodsanklai 13y ago
  I live in a more socialist country where health care and education are free, and where we have have a good balance between work and personal time and I hope it'll stay the same despite the international pressure. I don't know why "socialism" is such a bad word in the US. Probably propaganda from the rich to keep their privileges. I had the chance to live in the US for a couple of years (it was a child dream of mine to do so) and now I have much more mixed feelings about its ideology. Overall, I think I have a better life in Europe.
  - smtddr 13y ago
    >>Probably propaganda from the rich to keep their privileges. Not probably. It's exactly that.
    - swamp40 13y ago
      I can't believe no one has challenged you on this remark for 5+ hours.
    - vasilipupkin 13y ago
      Not at all - a "socialist" system involves doubling taxes On the middle class - that's really tough to sell to....the middle class, shockingly
      - alan_cx 13y ago
        1) Are US taxes half EU taxes then? 2) "Middle class", do you mean working classes? 3) Why do so many people think its a choice between the two, socialism and capitalism? What people want is a sensible compromise where both systems work to service all of society's needs, instead of a single system which can only benefit one part of society. No one serious thinks pure, exclusive socialism is the answer to anything? Its not. Neither is pure exclusive capitalism. Simply, capitalism raises the money to pay for socialism to provide a useful work force and services for capitalism. We need a balance.
        ezequiel-garzon 13y ago
- Natsu 13y ago
  According to the article he is a former bank robber who had shootouts with the police. I hope he's changed since then, but robbing banks tends to lead to long prison sentences in any country I know of (unless you're a banker, but that's another story...). Now, I'm not claiming to know anything specifically wrong with him, though an endorsement from the Daily Mail generally has the opposite effect for me.
  - mistermumble 13y ago
    So are you saying that 14 years is not a long prison sentence? By the way, that is about 10% longer than the average prison sentence for bank robbery in the US. See http://www.popcenter.org/problems/robbery_banks/4 http://www.popcenter.org/problems/robbery_banks/4
    - Natsu 13y ago
      Quite the opposite, I'm saying that it is long, but such sentences are normal for people convicted of bank robbery.
      - singold 13y ago
        Also take into account that it is not the same to be in prison on a democracy that in a dictatorship.
        Natsu 13y ago
        Well yes, it's true that I have no way of knowing that he was actually guilty, that he got a fair trial, etc. But assuming he actually was guilty (a potentially bad assumption), then the prison sentence itself was not objectively unreasonable (it's within striking distance of an average sentence), though the prison conditions very well might have been unreasonable.
        singold 13y ago
        I agree that the "sentence" is probably reasonable, but I was thinking more about the prison conditions, isolation, torture, etc.
cesarbs 13y ago
Is it as bad as Brazil? I have Uruguayan citizenship but never quite "exercised" it i.e. I've never lived and worked in Uruguay. I grew up in the border with Rivera though, and it was a much nicer place than Livramento on the Brazilian side: good street lighting, WAY better streets and sidewalks, nice parks, cops patrolling the streets. I remember finding it much safer to stay out late with my friends in Rivera than in Livramento. And not to mention the duty free shops where we could buy electronics and stuff for a much lower price than anywhere in Brazil :)
ricardobeat 13y ago
The article uses Brazil as a bad example, when in fact it's a country where 20+ million were lifted out of poverty by welfare systems, investments in education and economic growth in the past half decade. This attempt to paint a picture of left-wing governments as condemning citizens to a "median life" and "bread and sausage" is also used by the right-wing in Brazil, and bears no relation to reality. The nobody is going to get rich line means that nobody will profit in excess from your work, not that you will be prevented from getting richer if you really want to. E.g. nordic countries, switzerland...
poulsbohemian 13y ago
Can you give more specifics about your complaints, especially about Uruguay? I've had the opportunity to work with several people in the past year in Uruguay, Columbia, Brazil, and Argentina. The consensus has been uniformly positive that Uruguay's economy and politics are stable, the tech workers have plenty of opportunity and good wages. Some of the taxes and import duties are tough, but better there than in Argentina, for example. Thoughts? I'm honestly curious.

by eudox 13y ago

glesica 13y ago

So what is actually wrong with it? Nothing you mentioned sounds bad at all (and the translation of that article seemed pretty poor, so hard to draw conclusions). I would LOVE to live in a more "socialist" country. I'd much rather be poorer in a place where my basic needs are met and I don't have to fear starvation or freezing to death if I catch an unlucky break. Instead of a rising tide lifting all boats, I'd rather lower all the boats but make sure that none of them sink.

notanidiot5 13y ago
Yes, because we see news reports of poor American citizens dying everyday because of starvation. Keep pushing your propaganda though.
- smtddr 13y ago
  Don't forget, for most Americans... one unexpected hospital bill is all that stands between them and financial ruin. USA can be an okay place to be as long as you don't get sick...
  - vasilipupkin 13y ago
    Most Americans have insurance so your assertion is dubious
  - twoodfin 13y ago
    The vast majority of Americans even pre-ACA had either government-provided insurance or employer group insurance, neither of which would lead to "unexpected hospital bills". Even the existing private insurance market was pretty reliable here ("rescission" was vanishingly rare). So I'm curious how you came up with "most Americans".
yodsanklai 13y ago
I live in a more socialist country where health care and education are free, and where we have have a good balance between work and personal time and I hope it'll stay the same despite the international pressure. I don't know why "socialism" is such a bad word in the US. Probably propaganda from the rich to keep their privileges. I had the chance to live in the US for a couple of years (it was a child dream of mine to do so) and now I have much more mixed feelings about its ideology. Overall, I think I have a better life in Europe.
- smtddr 13y ago
  >>Probably propaganda from the rich to keep their privileges. Not probably. It's exactly that.
  - swamp40 13y ago
    I can't believe no one has challenged you on this remark for 5+ hours.
  - vasilipupkin 13y ago
    Not at all - a "socialist" system involves doubling taxes On the middle class - that's really tough to sell to....the middle class, shockingly
    - alan_cx 13y ago
      1) Are US taxes half EU taxes then? 2) "Middle class", do you mean working classes? 3) Why do so many people think its a choice between the two, socialism and capitalism? What people want is a sensible compromise where both systems work to service all of society's needs, instead of a single system which can only benefit one part of society. No one serious thinks pure, exclusive socialism is the answer to anything? Its not. Neither is pure exclusive capitalism. Simply, capitalism raises the money to pay for socialism to provide a useful work force and services for capitalism. We need a balance.
      - ezequiel-garzon 13y ago
Natsu 13y ago
According to the article he is a former bank robber who had shootouts with the police. I hope he's changed since then, but robbing banks tends to lead to long prison sentences in any country I know of (unless you're a banker, but that's another story...). Now, I'm not claiming to know anything specifically wrong with him, though an endorsement from the Daily Mail generally has the opposite effect for me.
- mistermumble 13y ago
  So are you saying that 14 years is not a long prison sentence? By the way, that is about 10% longer than the average prison sentence for bank robbery in the US. See http://www.popcenter.org/problems/robbery_banks/4 http://www.popcenter.org/problems/robbery_banks/4
  - Natsu 13y ago
    Quite the opposite, I'm saying that it is long, but such sentences are normal for people convicted of bank robbery.
    - singold 13y ago
      Also take into account that it is not the same to be in prison on a democracy that in a dictatorship.
      - Natsu 13y ago
        Well yes, it's true that I have no way of knowing that he was actually guilty, that he got a fair trial, etc. But assuming he actually was guilty (a potentially bad assumption), then the prison sentence itself was not objectively unreasonable (it's within striking distance of an average sentence), though the prison conditions very well might have been unreasonable.
        singold 13y ago
        I agree that the "sentence" is probably reasonable, but I was thinking more about the prison conditions, isolation, torture, etc.

cesarbs 13y ago

Is it as bad as Brazil? I have Uruguayan citizenship but never quite "exercised" it i.e. I've never lived and worked in Uruguay. I grew up in the border with Rivera though, and it was a much nicer place than Livramento on the Brazilian side: good street lighting, WAY better streets and sidewalks, nice parks, cops patrolling the streets. I remember finding it much safer to stay out late with my friends in Rivera than in Livramento. And not to mention the duty free shops where we could buy electronics and stuff for a much lower price than anywhere in Brazil :)

ricardobeat 13y ago

The article uses Brazil as a bad example, when in fact it's a country where 20+ million were lifted out of poverty by welfare systems, investments in education and economic growth in the past half decade. This attempt to paint a picture of left-wing governments as condemning citizens to a "median life" and "bread and sausage" is also used by the right-wing in Brazil, and bears no relation to reality. The nobody is going to get rich line means that nobody will profit in excess from your work, not that you will be prevented from getting richer if you really want to. E.g. nordic countries, switzerland...

poulsbohemian 13y ago

Can you give more specifics about your complaints, especially about Uruguay? I've had the opportunity to work with several people in the past year in Uruguay, Columbia, Brazil, and Argentina. The consensus has been uniformly positive that Uruguay's economy and politics are stable, the tech workers have plenty of opportunity and good wages. Some of the taxes and import duties are tough, but better there than in Argentina, for example. Thoughts? I'm honestly curious.