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To be clear, the claim is the following: There is reason to believe phones have been remotely hacked by law enforcement using carrier credentials to leave the

To be clear, the claim is the following: There is reason to believe phones have been remotely hacked by law enforcement using carrier credentials to leave the cellular radio running and registering with the cell network even after the off button has been pushed and the phone appears to be off. Starting point for further reading: http://www.brighthub.com/electronics/gps/articles/51103.aspx http://www.brighthub.com/electronics/gps/articles/51103.aspx The claim isn't my own; it's Trevor's, the founder of Anybots, and one of the best electronics hackers in the world. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6087399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6087399 He seems to have a pretty good grasp of reality, and he's more intimately familiar with the electronics than most of us. I also presented some circumstantial evidence indicating that law enforcement does in fact use this capability in practice, the last time this came up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519 If there's fault with this, then I'd like to understand why.

seiji 13y ago
The "off != off" is a good point, but that's still redefining Off a bit. The "capability in practice" you link to is slightly questionable because we have A Dumb Bad Guy claiming they turned their phone off. We don't know the entire story. Regardless of everything here: you are right that phones are out of our control at this point. If you don't want to be found, don't keep anything capable of emitting RF around you (including, but not limited to: phones, laptops, tablets, anything with RFID/NFC embedded, toll collecting car passes, tires with embedded RF transmitters for authentication or tire pressure checks, bluetooth headsets, bluetooth speakers, wifi/bluetooth digital scales, bluetooth hearing aids, ...).
maxerickson 13y ago
There is at least fault with presenting all that assertion and speculation as "Law enforcement absolutely has that capability". The first bit that approaches being evidence is the CNet article linked from the link, and it says Details of how the Nextel bugs worked are sketchy. Court documents, including an affidavit (p1) and (p2) prepared by Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Kolodner in September 2003, refer to them as a "listening device placed in the cellular telephone." That phrase could refer to software or hardware. So the absolute proof is a court document that doesn't provide any details about the mechanism used to compromise a dumb phone in 2003.
tedunangst 13y ago
You're slipping. You started with even when it's powered off and now you're at appears to be off.

seiji 13y ago

The "off != off" is a good point, but that's still redefining Off a bit. The "capability in practice" you link to is slightly questionable because we have A Dumb Bad Guy claiming they turned their phone off. We don't know the entire story. Regardless of everything here: you are right that phones are out of our control at this point. If you don't want to be found, don't keep anything capable of emitting RF around you (including, but not limited to: phones, laptops, tablets, anything with RFID/NFC embedded, toll collecting car passes, tires with embedded RF transmitters for authentication or tire pressure checks, bluetooth headsets, bluetooth speakers, wifi/bluetooth digital scales, bluetooth hearing aids, ...).

maxerickson 13y ago

There is at least fault with presenting all that assertion and speculation as "Law enforcement absolutely has that capability". The first bit that approaches being evidence is the CNet article linked from the link, and it says Details of how the Nextel bugs worked are sketchy. Court documents, including an affidavit (p1) and (p2) prepared by Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Kolodner in September 2003, refer to them as a "listening device placed in the cellular telephone." That phrase could refer to software or hardware. So the absolute proof is a court document that doesn't provide any details about the mechanism used to compromise a dumb phone in 2003.

tedunangst 13y ago

You're slipping. You started with even when it's powered off and now you're at appears to be off.