4 ms·

This has been a behaviour for many versions of Chrome and Firefox for a while (zoomable sites vs non-zoomable) and we haven't seen confusion around this. This

This has been a behaviour for many versions of Chrome and Firefox for a while (zoomable sites vs non-zoomable) and we haven't seen confusion around this. This is why we have the beta, to test this stuff.

jblow 13y ago
I don't think "we haven't seen confusion around this" is a good answer. Most users will not even understand what is happening, they will just have an ambient level of uncomfortability with the UI that they don't know how to explain (not only due to this, but to many other factors as well, all of which contribute). Don't tell me that your users don't have an ambient level of uncomfortability with the UI, because we all know that is the case (it is even the case on iOS, now much more than it was with iOS 6!) If I were the UI lead for Android, I would be scouring the system from top to bottom, looking for ways to simplify and streamline, to increase predictability. All kinds of current UI actions would get thrown away (hint to Google Maps people: Shake is not an intentional UI action, it is what happens accidentally 5 times per minute when I am using your software. It should not be bound to anything, ever. [Apple is just as bad for binding shake to Undo, but at least theirs has a higher threshold now]. It is nice that at least now you can finally turn it off after it activates a few times, but haven't you noticed how everyone turns it off all the time, and nobody ever uses it for the intended action ["leave feedback"]? Get rid of it.) Anyway, all I can say to this response: "This is why we have the beta, to test this stuff." Is that if this attitude were actually solving all the problems that need to be solved, Android would have an amazing UI that everybody raves about. That is not the case! Why is it not the case?
- jaffathecake 13y ago
  You're scattergunning. What exactly about the 300ms tap delay removal do you disagree with?
  - jblow 13y ago
    I disagree with the fact that it happens inconsistently and creates a more-complicated situation for me to internalize; and even if I know the rules (which most users don't), it may not always be clear which are happening unless I engage in experimentation -- can I tell just by looking which pages are going to have delay and which aren't? Sometimes it will be obvious, but will it always? Of course not. So sometimes I have to tap before I know. And that is if I am an extremely experienced and knowledgeable user, which most people are not. For most people this will be just one more small piece of inconsistency in the pile of confusion that is Android. Removing the delay 100% of the time, always, would be a big win.
    - jblow 13y ago
      ... And what about the actual action of double-tapping? On some pages it zooms, and on some pages it does nothing, and in fact the first tap fires off a link. How is that simple, predictable, or solid-feeling? It isn't.
      - untog 13y ago
        So you're objecting to the idea of non-scalable mobile web pages? Because the behaviour all stems from that.
      - jaffathecake 13y ago
        This is why we have the beta, we're interested in cases where the user expects double-tap to work, but it doesn't. However, with non-zoomable pages, this isn't a new problem at all.
      - KerrickStaley 13y ago
        I agree (a) inconsistency is bad and (b) latency is bad, but double-click-to-zoom is very useful (for operating the phone with your thumb when your other hand isn't free), and I think removing it would be bad overall. Perhaps people will be more inclined to write mobile-optimized sites that don't need to be zoomed if they can get reduced latency as a bonus.
        13y ago
tracker1 13y ago
I hate non-zoomable sites, even when "mobile friendly" sometimes the fonts on my phone are too small, even in mobile, or I'd like to zoom in on an image a bit.. I'd rather have the delay... (actually I'd rather nuke double-tap to zoom)
- mattmcknight 13y ago
  Absolutely...what do you do when a non-zoomable site is too small or too big? It's much better to have the flexibility. Double tap is less useful to me than retaining the ability to zoom any site I want to.
- robocat 13y ago
  Chrome on Android has the Accessibility setting "force enable zoom" that can be ticked to achieve that Mobile Safari allows the viewport settings to be changed at runtime, so you could make a JavaScript bookmarklet to achieve the same. EDIT: already done https://gist.github.com/jasonbarry/6047338 https://gist.github.com/jasonbarry/6047338 as per user andrethegiant below.

jblow 13y ago

I don't think "we haven't seen confusion around this" is a good answer. Most users will not even understand what is happening, they will just have an ambient level of uncomfortability with the UI that they don't know how to explain (not only due to this, but to many other factors as well, all of which contribute). Don't tell me that your users don't have an ambient level of uncomfortability with the UI, because we all know that is the case (it is even the case on iOS, now much more than it was with iOS 6!) If I were the UI lead for Android, I would be scouring the system from top to bottom, looking for ways to simplify and streamline, to increase predictability. All kinds of current UI actions would get thrown away (hint to Google Maps people: Shake is not an intentional UI action, it is what happens accidentally 5 times per minute when I am using your software. It should not be bound to anything, ever. [Apple is just as bad for binding shake to Undo, but at least theirs has a higher threshold now]. It is nice that at least now you can finally turn it off after it activates a few times, but haven't you noticed how everyone turns it off all the time, and nobody ever uses it for the intended action ["leave feedback"]? Get rid of it.) Anyway, all I can say to this response: "This is why we have the beta, to test this stuff." Is that if this attitude were actually solving all the problems that need to be solved, Android would have an amazing UI that everybody raves about. That is not the case! Why is it not the case?

jaffathecake 13y ago
You're scattergunning. What exactly about the 300ms tap delay removal do you disagree with?
- jblow 13y ago
  I disagree with the fact that it happens inconsistently and creates a more-complicated situation for me to internalize; and even if I know the rules (which most users don't), it may not always be clear which are happening unless I engage in experimentation -- can I tell just by looking which pages are going to have delay and which aren't? Sometimes it will be obvious, but will it always? Of course not. So sometimes I have to tap before I know. And that is if I am an extremely experienced and knowledgeable user, which most people are not. For most people this will be just one more small piece of inconsistency in the pile of confusion that is Android. Removing the delay 100% of the time, always, would be a big win.
  - jblow 13y ago
    ... And what about the actual action of double-tapping? On some pages it zooms, and on some pages it does nothing, and in fact the first tap fires off a link. How is that simple, predictable, or solid-feeling? It isn't.
    - untog 13y ago
      So you're objecting to the idea of non-scalable mobile web pages? Because the behaviour all stems from that.
    - jaffathecake 13y ago
      This is why we have the beta, we're interested in cases where the user expects double-tap to work, but it doesn't. However, with non-zoomable pages, this isn't a new problem at all.
    - KerrickStaley 13y ago
      I agree (a) inconsistency is bad and (b) latency is bad, but double-click-to-zoom is very useful (for operating the phone with your thumb when your other hand isn't free), and I think removing it would be bad overall. Perhaps people will be more inclined to write mobile-optimized sites that don't need to be zoomed if they can get reduced latency as a bonus.
      - 13y ago

tracker1 13y ago

I hate non-zoomable sites, even when "mobile friendly" sometimes the fonts on my phone are too small, even in mobile, or I'd like to zoom in on an image a bit.. I'd rather have the delay... (actually I'd rather nuke double-tap to zoom)

mattmcknight 13y ago
Absolutely...what do you do when a non-zoomable site is too small or too big? It's much better to have the flexibility. Double tap is less useful to me than retaining the ability to zoom any site I want to.
robocat 13y ago
Chrome on Android has the Accessibility setting "force enable zoom" that can be ticked to achieve that Mobile Safari allows the viewport settings to be changed at runtime, so you could make a JavaScript bookmarklet to achieve the same. EDIT: already done https://gist.github.com/jasonbarry/6047338 https://gist.github.com/jasonbarry/6047338 as per user andrethegiant below.