5 ms·

is the concept of someone remotely turning your cellphone into a microphone fact or fiction? Is their any proof in either direction? It is fact. http://news.c

is the concept of someone remotely turning your cellphone into a microphone fact or fiction? Is their any proof in either direction? It is fact. http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html Law enforcement absolutely has that capability, as well as turning your phone into a tracking beacon even when it's powered off. See here for more info and discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519

tptacek 13y ago
https://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/411539368990363648 https://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/411539368990363648
- sillysaurus2 13y ago
  I don't understand. I hold your opinion in high regard, because your views are almost always well-researched and supported; if not with evidence, then usually with experience. For what it's worth, I strive to express my views with the same quality and clarity as your expressions. So your reply is somewhat disconcerting, because it seems to indicate that you think the claims are bogus. And if you think so, then you have good reason to feel that way, since almost all of your views are, well, reasonable. (An aside: would you please write something articulating your deep hatred for Soylent? It was shocking to discover you felt that way, and that I didn't see anything wrong with Soylent, so I've been silently hoping to someday see a writeup from you in order that I may find reasons to change my own view.) In short, I accepted long ago that there's roughly zero chance of going through life without unintentionally believing in crazy things. Everyone does, at some point. Therefore the most important thing is to keep my eyes open for evidence of my own crazy beliefs, so that I can constantly reevaluate them. So your reply seems to be strong evidence that someone I respect thinks I'm being a bit bogus regarding cell phone tracking. If that's the case, then I'd love to hear your thoughts on the subject so that I can revise my own.
  - seiji 13y ago
    Off = powered down = no broadcasting or receiving. Now, in most devices these days you can't be sure "Off" is actually "Off." I bet many Android phones lie about "turning off" and just go into a low-power-with-quick-reboot sleep mode. If you successfully redefine Off to be Maybe Off, nobody can argue with you because you changed the terms of reality.
    - sillysaurus2 13y ago
      To be clear, the claim is the following: There is reason to believe phones have been remotely hacked by law enforcement using carrier credentials to leave the cellular radio running and registering with the cell network even after the off button has been pushed and the phone appears to be off. Starting point for further reading: http://www.brighthub.com/electronics/gps/articles/51103.aspx http://www.brighthub.com/electronics/gps/articles/51103.aspx The claim isn't my own; it's Trevor's, the founder of Anybots, and one of the best electronics hackers in the world. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6087399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6087399 He seems to have a pretty good grasp of reality, and he's more intimately familiar with the electronics than most of us. I also presented some circumstantial evidence indicating that law enforcement does in fact use this capability in practice, the last time this came up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519 If there's fault with this, then I'd like to understand why.
      - seiji 13y ago
        The "off != off" is a good point, but that's still redefining Off a bit. The "capability in practice" you link to is slightly questionable because we have A Dumb Bad Guy claiming they turned their phone off. We don't know the entire story. Regardless of everything here: you are right that phones are out of our control at this point. If you don't want to be found, don't keep anything capable of emitting RF around you (including, but not limited to: phones, laptops, tablets, anything with RFID/NFC embedded, toll collecting car passes, tires with embedded RF transmitters for authentication or tire pressure checks, bluetooth headsets, bluetooth speakers, wifi/bluetooth digital scales, bluetooth hearing aids, ...).

tptacek 13y ago

https://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/411539368990363648 https://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/411539368990363648

sillysaurus2 13y ago
I don't understand. I hold your opinion in high regard, because your views are almost always well-researched and supported; if not with evidence, then usually with experience. For what it's worth, I strive to express my views with the same quality and clarity as your expressions. So your reply is somewhat disconcerting, because it seems to indicate that you think the claims are bogus. And if you think so, then you have good reason to feel that way, since almost all of your views are, well, reasonable. (An aside: would you please write something articulating your deep hatred for Soylent? It was shocking to discover you felt that way, and that I didn't see anything wrong with Soylent, so I've been silently hoping to someday see a writeup from you in order that I may find reasons to change my own view.) In short, I accepted long ago that there's roughly zero chance of going through life without unintentionally believing in crazy things. Everyone does, at some point. Therefore the most important thing is to keep my eyes open for evidence of my own crazy beliefs, so that I can constantly reevaluate them. So your reply seems to be strong evidence that someone I respect thinks I'm being a bit bogus regarding cell phone tracking. If that's the case, then I'd love to hear your thoughts on the subject so that I can revise my own.
- seiji 13y ago
  Off = powered down = no broadcasting or receiving. Now, in most devices these days you can't be sure "Off" is actually "Off." I bet many Android phones lie about "turning off" and just go into a low-power-with-quick-reboot sleep mode. If you successfully redefine Off to be Maybe Off, nobody can argue with you because you changed the terms of reality.
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    To be clear, the claim is the following: There is reason to believe phones have been remotely hacked by law enforcement using carrier credentials to leave the cellular radio running and registering with the cell network even after the off button has been pushed and the phone appears to be off. Starting point for further reading: http://www.brighthub.com/electronics/gps/articles/51103.aspx http://www.brighthub.com/electronics/gps/articles/51103.aspx The claim isn't my own; it's Trevor's, the founder of Anybots, and one of the best electronics hackers in the world. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6087399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6087399 He seems to have a pretty good grasp of reality, and he's more intimately familiar with the electronics than most of us. I also presented some circumstantial evidence indicating that law enforcement does in fact use this capability in practice, the last time this came up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519 If there's fault with this, then I'd like to understand why.
    - seiji 13y ago
      The "off != off" is a good point, but that's still redefining Off a bit. The "capability in practice" you link to is slightly questionable because we have A Dumb Bad Guy claiming they turned their phone off. We don't know the entire story. Regardless of everything here: you are right that phones are out of our control at this point. If you don't want to be found, don't keep anything capable of emitting RF around you (including, but not limited to: phones, laptops, tablets, anything with RFID/NFC embedded, toll collecting car passes, tires with embedded RF transmitters for authentication or tire pressure checks, bluetooth headsets, bluetooth speakers, wifi/bluetooth digital scales, bluetooth hearing aids, ...).