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Thanks for the feedback, and I understand your concerns. I'll address them below. >> Even if mattress retailers are making a fortune on margins, well you guys

by daehee 13y ago

Thanks for the feedback, and I understand your concerns. I'll address them below. >> Even if mattress retailers are making a fortune on margins, well you guys also have margins too. And a retail price of $299..to..$499-king tells me that your mattresses are very low end. We of course have built-in margins on our products, and we try to keep it as fair as possible while supporting our operational overhead. But to write off our beds as "very low end" is a misinformed assumption. We have internal pricing of well known mattress brands that are considered high end by many and they have the same if not lower costs as ours (due to volume and manufacturing in Mexico/China). >> It is just too thin. Less than half the thickness of a regular mattress. We have a 10-inch model (double the thickness) coming out soon. The price won't be too much more than the 5-inch, while offering the same level of comfort. But to be honest, we've never had a return for it being too thin. >> the fact that is made of foam only makes it worse as with that thickness it will unavoidable deform with usage Our foam should last 5-7 years before there is any deformity/compression. We've done thorough cycle tests in a lab to test this. >> Then there is the foam density, that I can't see anywhere in the specs. And as you can guess when you import materials the bigger the density the more expensive the foam sheets are. The foam in our bed is roughly about 2 lbs in density. There is some variance as with any foam manufacturing process. Our foams are poured and crafted in California, and 3 different layers provide a blend in density that's proved to be comfortable and durable. To give a point of reference, Tempurpedic recently dropped below a 1.8 lb density base foam, and that is considered high end. They used to use 2 lb but they reduced it to increase their margins.

pstuart 13y ago
Hooray for manufacturing in California! May your business prosper and remain stateside. We've got a European Sleepworks mattress that is likely to last a long time -- for the price, it should :-). When the time comes to replace it, I'll be buying from you.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Raphael 13y ago
2 lbs per cubic foot?
- alsocasey 13y ago
  If that's what he meant, that it's really low. For comparison a Tempurpedic is 5.3 lbs. per civic foot for it's top layer, nearer 8 for the structural bottom layer.
  - bobbydavid 13y ago
    In his post above, he says temperpedic is 1.8 lb. so which is it, 8 or 1.8?
    - FlyingAvatar 13y ago
      The low-end Tempur Queen mattress from this page: http://www.brookstone.com/tempur-pedic-tempur-simplicity-mattress-and-foundation-set http://www.brookstone.com/tempur-pedic-tempur-simplicity-mat... 47 lbs / 22.22 cu. ft = 2.1 lbs The weight listed is probably the shipping weight with packaging, so the actual weight of the foam is less. Seems like 8 lbs would be extremely dense.
smacktoward 13y ago
> Our foam should last 5-7 years before there is any deformity/compression 5-7 years doesn't seem like a particularly long time in the context of the life of a mattress. My (limited) understanding has always been that mattresses are the sort of thing many people hold onto for decades. In that context "it'll be good for five years" doesn't sound reassuring. If you're positioning your product on price, you could make the counterargument that with your mattresses people could afford to replace them much more frequently than they typically do, of course. Just pointing out how this marketing point would strike me, if I were a potential customer.
- johmas 13y ago
  Thank you for the feedback. We're not fans of holding onto mattresses for very long, of course we're biased on this; but, no matter what the material is you will develop body impressions and compression in the mattress. Be it synthetic materials or natural materials like cotton or wool. Compression can lead to degraded pressure point relief which can lead to spinal issues and discomfort. Regarding the 5-7 years, if you look at a mattress that has a 10-25 year warranty closely you will notice that it is pro-rated. Meaning each year you own it, they will credit you less and less. This essentially breaks even somewhere around 5 years. Not to mention they make you jump through some serious hoops to prove it is damaged. We view this as a gimmick. So what we do is just provide a clean warranty at 5 years and exchange it if there are any problems. It may very well last longer but we felt at this point in time for our startup that we should stick to 5 years and evaluate whether we can extend beyond that. Honestly, we want to see how customers will treat us when that time comes. Thank you again for the feedback.
- SDGT 13y ago
  $100 a year for a mattress at their price is downright cheap, assuming you don't even go the full 7. 5-7 years is MTTF for just about every mattress in existence. I pitch mine after 5 years as is; Those things are dirty after 5 years of sleeping on the same surface every night.
  - curun1r 13y ago
    That's the point behind mattress covers/pads. For $50/$100, you get something to put on top of the mattress to absorb the dirt. After a few years, you can replace them for a fraction of the cost of a new mattress. They can also be removed and washed.
aniro 13y ago
You may not want to miss the larger point to take away from this.. ">> Even if mattress retailers are making a fortune on margins, well you guys also have margins too. And a retail price of $299..to..$499-king tells me that your mattresses are very low end.".. "You get what you pay for" is an adage you will have to take into account when considering perceptions of your product by potential customers. Whether correct or not, most people correlate price with quality such that a lower cost (to them) product is assumed to be of lower quality. Even those with an actual understanding of supply chains and intermediaries and their effect on pricing will do this, despite that knowledge.
- ddmf 13y ago
  Perceived Value is something that is under perceived.
jfoster 13y ago
Every time you do something a new way, there will be people in the industry who claim that what you're selling is no good because of X. (where X = something your product is missing, or does but shouldn't do, or some other supposed flaw) If you believe them, it can be puzzling because you already know that customers have actually been more concerned with other things. Just keep going and don't pay too much attention to anyone except your customers and potential customers.

by daehee 13y ago

pstuart 13y ago

Hooray for manufacturing in California! May your business prosper and remain stateside. We've got a European Sleepworks mattress that is likely to last a long time -- for the price, it should :-). When the time comes to replace it, I'll be buying from you.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

Raphael 13y ago

2 lbs per cubic foot?

alsocasey 13y ago
If that's what he meant, that it's really low. For comparison a Tempurpedic is 5.3 lbs. per civic foot for it's top layer, nearer 8 for the structural bottom layer.
- bobbydavid 13y ago
  In his post above, he says temperpedic is 1.8 lb. so which is it, 8 or 1.8?
  - FlyingAvatar 13y ago
    The low-end Tempur Queen mattress from this page: http://www.brookstone.com/tempur-pedic-tempur-simplicity-mattress-and-foundation-set http://www.brookstone.com/tempur-pedic-tempur-simplicity-mat... 47 lbs / 22.22 cu. ft = 2.1 lbs The weight listed is probably the shipping weight with packaging, so the actual weight of the foam is less. Seems like 8 lbs would be extremely dense.

smacktoward 13y ago

> Our foam should last 5-7 years before there is any deformity/compression 5-7 years doesn't seem like a particularly long time in the context of the life of a mattress. My (limited) understanding has always been that mattresses are the sort of thing many people hold onto for decades. In that context "it'll be good for five years" doesn't sound reassuring. If you're positioning your product on price, you could make the counterargument that with your mattresses people could afford to replace them much more frequently than they typically do, of course. Just pointing out how this marketing point would strike me, if I were a potential customer.

johmas 13y ago
Thank you for the feedback. We're not fans of holding onto mattresses for very long, of course we're biased on this; but, no matter what the material is you will develop body impressions and compression in the mattress. Be it synthetic materials or natural materials like cotton or wool. Compression can lead to degraded pressure point relief which can lead to spinal issues and discomfort. Regarding the 5-7 years, if you look at a mattress that has a 10-25 year warranty closely you will notice that it is pro-rated. Meaning each year you own it, they will credit you less and less. This essentially breaks even somewhere around 5 years. Not to mention they make you jump through some serious hoops to prove it is damaged. We view this as a gimmick. So what we do is just provide a clean warranty at 5 years and exchange it if there are any problems. It may very well last longer but we felt at this point in time for our startup that we should stick to 5 years and evaluate whether we can extend beyond that. Honestly, we want to see how customers will treat us when that time comes. Thank you again for the feedback.
SDGT 13y ago
$100 a year for a mattress at their price is downright cheap, assuming you don't even go the full 7. 5-7 years is MTTF for just about every mattress in existence. I pitch mine after 5 years as is; Those things are dirty after 5 years of sleeping on the same surface every night.
- curun1r 13y ago
  That's the point behind mattress covers/pads. For $50/$100, you get something to put on top of the mattress to absorb the dirt. After a few years, you can replace them for a fraction of the cost of a new mattress. They can also be removed and washed.

aniro 13y ago

You may not want to miss the larger point to take away from this.. ">> Even if mattress retailers are making a fortune on margins, well you guys also have margins too. And a retail price of $299..to..$499-king tells me that your mattresses are very low end.".. "You get what you pay for" is an adage you will have to take into account when considering perceptions of your product by potential customers. Whether correct or not, most people correlate price with quality such that a lower cost (to them) product is assumed to be of lower quality. Even those with an actual understanding of supply chains and intermediaries and their effect on pricing will do this, despite that knowledge.

ddmf 13y ago
Perceived Value is something that is under perceived.

jfoster 13y ago

Every time you do something a new way, there will be people in the industry who claim that what you're selling is no good because of X. (where X = something your product is missing, or does but shouldn't do, or some other supposed flaw) If you believe them, it can be puzzling because you already know that customers have actually been more concerned with other things. Just keep going and don't pay too much attention to anyone except your customers and potential customers.