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Re. proper keyboards - the market says otherwise. There have been plenty of Android phones with hard keyboards but they've not sold in sufficient quantities to

Re. proper keyboards - the market says otherwise. There have been plenty of Android phones with hard keyboards but they've not sold in sufficient quantities to make it attractive. If there was a market for it, people would be making them, if you disagree with that they what are you doing on here, your fortune awaits... Also worth seeing kids who've never used a physical keyboard to any great extent. I've seen them doing what must be close to 60 words a minute on a touch screen (tablet rather than phone but still). If you're used to it a touch screen keyboard isn't a massive limiting factor. EDIT: This is interesting: http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/122/ipadtyping.asp http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/usabilitynews/122/ipadtyp... A study showing netbooks to have a typical typing speed of around 60WPM vs 40WPM for iPad, but interestingly it mentions that none of the participants had used an iPad. I'm guessing that someone with significant experience on a particular OS / soft keyboard with correction could close that gap pretty sharpish. EDIT2: http://thinkertry.com/2012/10/30/typing-speed-test-iphone-vs-ipad-vs-keyboard/ http://thinkertry.com/2012/10/30/typing-speed-test-iphone-vs... Someone testing iPhone, iPad and keyboard two years running: 2011: iPhone: 57 wpm, iPad: 60 wpm, Keyboard: 71 wpm 2012: iPhone: 51 wpm, iPad: 75 wpm, Keyboard: 82 wpm It seems that practice does indeed close the gap. Given that the total install base for touchscreen devices will exceed that for PCs in the next 12 months (probably next 6), that greater level of familiarity will shortly become standard.

uchi 13y ago
There's actually something fairly interesting at play that should be mentioned: Typing with a physical keyboard is much more accurate than a touchscreen, but a touchscreen makes up this deficiency by a much simpler to use word completion feature. Error correction is also a breeze. Most of the words written in this post took advantage of those factors, and it took me about a minute to type everything up.
- Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
  Two things: 1) Depends on the keyboard - the research I've posted showed that against a netbook keyboard, an iPad in landscape mode had greater accuracy. 2) Agree on the autocorrect features and it's something I've noticed this with touchscreen typing. It's taken me a while to get used to the auto-correct features. It used to be that they were basically a prompt that something was wrong that I'd retype mannually, now my instincts work with them. They also act as autocomplete when you're used to them - either fully or with edits (it'll often prompt with the right root word but with a different ending - say regretfully instead of regretful - in some cases it's quicker to accept it's suggestion and then delete than to continue typing, once you're used to it).
tomrod 13y ago
User preferences != the market. They are half the market. What this really says is that virtual keyboards have practically no cost, and so utilizing them instead of physical keyboards saves more in marginal (and perhaps per-unit) cost than the revenue from lost customers that require a physical keyboard.
- Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
  All you're describing is an extension of the user preference - the willing to pay for their preference. Generally speaking if people aren't willing to make a sacrifice for the preference (in the form of money), how strong a preference is it? After all I can get a physical keyboard on the $5 electronic address book. Even understanding that that's a very cheap keyboard (though that also includes margins for retailer, manufacturer and all the other costs), you're telling me that that the cost of a physical keyboard is going to be a deal breaker on a $300+ smartphone?
  - tomkarlo 13y ago
    The real cost of a physical keyboard (at least a built-in one) isn't the cost of the hardware. It's also the cost of having to have a different hardware unit for each country you want to sell in (and often not just the labels, but the physical layout as well.) That's a massive increase in the inventory risk you're taking, because your inventory has suddenly become less flexible.
DerpDerpDerp 13y ago
> If there was a market for it, people would be making them, if you disagree with that they what are you doing on here, your fortune awaits... This is incredibly disingenuous because of the high barrier to entry on cellphone manufacturing.
- raverbashing 13y ago
  You can sell a pluggable device, no need to produce the whole phone
  - DerpDerpDerp 13y ago
    A pluggable device doesn't offer the same experience as having a physically built-in keyboard.
    - raverbashing 13y ago
      You're right, it's better, since you don't have to sacrifice screen area for the keyboard There were Android phones with keyboards. I had the chance to play with a prototype in 2009 (yes, this was after the iPhone) Not good. Not good at all.
      - Crito 13y ago
        You don't have to sacrifice screen space for a physical keyboard... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/DROID_3.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/DROID_3.j... That form factor is fine, although not popular with consumers. I had a Droid 2 for a while, and found myself using the soft-keyboard more and more, particularly while not using connectbot.
        raverbashing 13y ago
        Yes, the prototype I tested was similar But the keys are too small for the fingers (IMHO). And it's a fragile item in the hardware.
kunai 13y ago
> There have been plenty of Android phones with hard keyboards but they've not sold in sufficient quantities to make it attractive. They haven't sold because they've sucked. They had low-quality displays, crappy software, slow SoCs, and barely enough memory to be usable. The only keyboard phone left is BlackBerry, and that's not selling, well, because it's a BlackBerry. There is a huge market for regular keyboard cellular devices. It's just that nobody's made a half-decent phone along with the keyboard. If there is a device with a physical keyboard, a tapered, curved design, high quality components, a top-notch display, excellent build quality, the latest versions of Android, and good marketing, and you have a winner on your hands. It's just that idiotic OEMs like HTC and Samsung would rather follow the fruity status quo than break from the norm. Only BlackBerry seems to have any balls today. Shame they're practically dead in the consumer sector.
- Steko 13y ago
  "idiotic OEMs like ... Samsung would rather follow the fruity status quo" Samsung has been immensely profitable with their strategy of 'following the fruity status quo' and have a huge design department and produce dozens of phones and if they thought there was a huge market for a flagship keyboard phone they'd presumably be all over it. If people want a physical keyboard for their phone there are plenty of case options, e.g.: http://typokeyboards.com/ http://typokeyboards.com/
- CalRobert 13y ago
  Funny enough, the best keyboard on an Android device that I ever used wasn't even an Android device. I had an HTC Touch Pro 2 (Windows Mobile 6.5) that could be cajoled into running Android, and typing on it was a _joyous_ experience. Sadly it finally died, and besides that it was getting to be ludicrously out of date.
saraid216 13y ago
Market realities are not really the substitute for thinking that you seem to think they are.

uchi 13y ago

There's actually something fairly interesting at play that should be mentioned: Typing with a physical keyboard is much more accurate than a touchscreen, but a touchscreen makes up this deficiency by a much simpler to use word completion feature. Error correction is also a breeze. Most of the words written in this post took advantage of those factors, and it took me about a minute to type everything up.

Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
Two things: 1) Depends on the keyboard - the research I've posted showed that against a netbook keyboard, an iPad in landscape mode had greater accuracy. 2) Agree on the autocorrect features and it's something I've noticed this with touchscreen typing. It's taken me a while to get used to the auto-correct features. It used to be that they were basically a prompt that something was wrong that I'd retype mannually, now my instincts work with them. They also act as autocomplete when you're used to them - either fully or with edits (it'll often prompt with the right root word but with a different ending - say regretfully instead of regretful - in some cases it's quicker to accept it's suggestion and then delete than to continue typing, once you're used to it).

tomrod 13y ago

User preferences != the market. They are half the market. What this really says is that virtual keyboards have practically no cost, and so utilizing them instead of physical keyboards saves more in marginal (and perhaps per-unit) cost than the revenue from lost customers that require a physical keyboard.

Tyrannosaurs 13y ago
All you're describing is an extension of the user preference - the willing to pay for their preference. Generally speaking if people aren't willing to make a sacrifice for the preference (in the form of money), how strong a preference is it? After all I can get a physical keyboard on the $5 electronic address book. Even understanding that that's a very cheap keyboard (though that also includes margins for retailer, manufacturer and all the other costs), you're telling me that that the cost of a physical keyboard is going to be a deal breaker on a $300+ smartphone?
- tomkarlo 13y ago
  The real cost of a physical keyboard (at least a built-in one) isn't the cost of the hardware. It's also the cost of having to have a different hardware unit for each country you want to sell in (and often not just the labels, but the physical layout as well.) That's a massive increase in the inventory risk you're taking, because your inventory has suddenly become less flexible.

DerpDerpDerp 13y ago

> If there was a market for it, people would be making them, if you disagree with that they what are you doing on here, your fortune awaits... This is incredibly disingenuous because of the high barrier to entry on cellphone manufacturing.

raverbashing 13y ago
You can sell a pluggable device, no need to produce the whole phone
- DerpDerpDerp 13y ago
  A pluggable device doesn't offer the same experience as having a physically built-in keyboard.
  - raverbashing 13y ago
    You're right, it's better, since you don't have to sacrifice screen area for the keyboard There were Android phones with keyboards. I had the chance to play with a prototype in 2009 (yes, this was after the iPhone) Not good. Not good at all.
    - Crito 13y ago
      You don't have to sacrifice screen space for a physical keyboard... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/DROID_3.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/DROID_3.j... That form factor is fine, although not popular with consumers. I had a Droid 2 for a while, and found myself using the soft-keyboard more and more, particularly while not using connectbot.
      - raverbashing 13y ago
        Yes, the prototype I tested was similar But the keys are too small for the fingers (IMHO). And it's a fragile item in the hardware.

kunai 13y ago

> There have been plenty of Android phones with hard keyboards but they've not sold in sufficient quantities to make it attractive. They haven't sold because they've sucked. They had low-quality displays, crappy software, slow SoCs, and barely enough memory to be usable. The only keyboard phone left is BlackBerry, and that's not selling, well, because it's a BlackBerry. There is a huge market for regular keyboard cellular devices. It's just that nobody's made a half-decent phone along with the keyboard. If there is a device with a physical keyboard, a tapered, curved design, high quality components, a top-notch display, excellent build quality, the latest versions of Android, and good marketing, and you have a winner on your hands. It's just that idiotic OEMs like HTC and Samsung would rather follow the fruity status quo than break from the norm. Only BlackBerry seems to have any balls today. Shame they're practically dead in the consumer sector.

Steko 13y ago
"idiotic OEMs like ... Samsung would rather follow the fruity status quo" Samsung has been immensely profitable with their strategy of 'following the fruity status quo' and have a huge design department and produce dozens of phones and if they thought there was a huge market for a flagship keyboard phone they'd presumably be all over it. If people want a physical keyboard for their phone there are plenty of case options, e.g.: http://typokeyboards.com/ http://typokeyboards.com/
CalRobert 13y ago
Funny enough, the best keyboard on an Android device that I ever used wasn't even an Android device. I had an HTC Touch Pro 2 (Windows Mobile 6.5) that could be cajoled into running Android, and typing on it was a _joyous_ experience. Sadly it finally died, and besides that it was getting to be ludicrously out of date.

saraid216 13y ago

Market realities are not really the substitute for thinking that you seem to think they are.