6 ms·

So is the concept of someone remotely turning your cellphone into a microphone fact or fiction? Is their any proof in either direction?

by andr 13y ago

eatitraw 13y ago
It may be rooted in reality. Not that they can turn on microphone on any phone, but that they were able to hack someone's phone to download firmware, for example. BTW, there are recent news about FBI secretly activating webcams: https://twitter.com/tinyrevolution/status/409311691088723968/photo/1/large https://twitter.com/tinyrevolution/status/409311691088723968...
- LoganCale 13y ago
  Every webcam should have a hardware light that indicates when it is on, as the ones built into Apple laptops do. The light cannot be disabled through software, it's just wired into the power connection to the camera and always comes on when the camera is turned on.
  - nitrogen 13y ago
    Some don't have a light at all, and as you suggest, some are controlled entirely in software (like the LEDs on the Kinect, for example). How would one go about convincing manufacturers to include mandatory activity indicators in all consumer webcams? Is there a reason why that would be a bad thing?
    - toomuchtodo 13y ago
      1) Legislation. 2) No.
      - grecy 13y ago
        1) Legislation. Legislation is written and enforced by the government, and they're the ones we're trying to stop. I doubt you'll see this approach work.
        tedunangst 13y ago
        Somehow the existing wiretapping laws made it into the books.
  - seiji 13y ago
    That's what makes cell phones creepy too. If you pause and think about it, cell phones don't have in-series recording lights on either front or rear or side or underside cameras. Few people think "cell phone out" = "camera on" unless somebody is holding the phone "as a camera." It's easy to hack how you hold a phone to get around that.
    - ballard 13y ago
      The argument for switching to a soft-phone only on a laptop looks even stronger now compared to the liability of tracking and interception of cell phones. Convenience is the gotcha.
  - BrandonMarc 13y ago
    Rather than a light, every camera should have a lens cover. Some opaque object easy to slide in and out of place. A tiny piece of circular plastic would do. Along with the light which, as you mentioned, should be required to be hard-wired with the camera connection so that the camera cannot work without the light, perhaps the little sliding piece of plastic could work as an on/off switch. Imagine if every laptop & phone (and now, television) had one of these? Heck, right now I have countless electronic eyes staring at me ... television, laptop, phones that happen to be in the room. Can I be sure that nobody's watching me remotely? Hell no.
sillysaurus2 13y ago
is the concept of someone remotely turning your cellphone into a microphone fact or fiction? Is their any proof in either direction? It is fact. http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html Law enforcement absolutely has that capability, as well as turning your phone into a tracking beacon even when it's powered off. See here for more info and discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519
- tptacek 13y ago
  https://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/411539368990363648 https://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/411539368990363648
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    I don't understand. I hold your opinion in high regard, because your views are almost always well-researched and supported; if not with evidence, then usually with experience. For what it's worth, I strive to express my views with the same quality and clarity as your expressions. So your reply is somewhat disconcerting, because it seems to indicate that you think the claims are bogus. And if you think so, then you have good reason to feel that way, since almost all of your views are, well, reasonable. (An aside: would you please write something articulating your deep hatred for Soylent? It was shocking to discover you felt that way, and that I didn't see anything wrong with Soylent, so I've been silently hoping to someday see a writeup from you in order that I may find reasons to change my own view.) In short, I accepted long ago that there's roughly zero chance of going through life without unintentionally believing in crazy things. Everyone does, at some point. Therefore the most important thing is to keep my eyes open for evidence of my own crazy beliefs, so that I can constantly reevaluate them. So your reply seems to be strong evidence that someone I respect thinks I'm being a bit bogus regarding cell phone tracking. If that's the case, then I'd love to hear your thoughts on the subject so that I can revise my own.
    - seiji 13y ago
      Off = powered down = no broadcasting or receiving. Now, in most devices these days you can't be sure "Off" is actually "Off." I bet many Android phones lie about "turning off" and just go into a low-power-with-quick-reboot sleep mode. If you successfully redefine Off to be Maybe Off, nobody can argue with you because you changed the terms of reality.
tedunangst 13y ago
Here's a thought. Remember that whole parallel construction thing everybody was freaking out about? The NSA passes the FBI a tip. The FBI needs to get this tip admitted into evidence, so they claim they overheard it on the phone. One snag: the target's cell phone was turned off when the conversation took place. Solution: a magic bug that can listen even when it's turned off.
0xdeadbeefbabe 13y ago
It seems to be a fact, but have a little imagination. Your phone is leaking lots of data, data that is so useful to investigators that they'd prefer not to listen to you because they'd have to assign someone to interpret what was meant minute by minute.

So is the concept of someone remotely turning your cellphone into a microphone fact or fiction? Is their any proof in either direction?

by andr 13y ago

So is the concept of someone remotely turning your cellphone into a microphone fact or fiction? Is their any proof in either direction?

eatitraw 13y ago

It may be rooted in reality. Not that they can turn on microphone on any phone, but that they were able to hack someone's phone to download firmware, for example. BTW, there are recent news about FBI secretly activating webcams: https://twitter.com/tinyrevolution/status/409311691088723968/photo/1/large https://twitter.com/tinyrevolution/status/409311691088723968...

LoganCale 13y ago
Every webcam should have a hardware light that indicates when it is on, as the ones built into Apple laptops do. The light cannot be disabled through software, it's just wired into the power connection to the camera and always comes on when the camera is turned on.
- nitrogen 13y ago
  Some don't have a light at all, and as you suggest, some are controlled entirely in software (like the LEDs on the Kinect, for example). How would one go about convincing manufacturers to include mandatory activity indicators in all consumer webcams? Is there a reason why that would be a bad thing?
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    1) Legislation. 2) No.
    - grecy 13y ago
      1) Legislation. Legislation is written and enforced by the government, and they're the ones we're trying to stop. I doubt you'll see this approach work.
      - tedunangst 13y ago
        Somehow the existing wiretapping laws made it into the books.
- seiji 13y ago
  That's what makes cell phones creepy too. If you pause and think about it, cell phones don't have in-series recording lights on either front or rear or side or underside cameras. Few people think "cell phone out" = "camera on" unless somebody is holding the phone "as a camera." It's easy to hack how you hold a phone to get around that.
  - ballard 13y ago
    The argument for switching to a soft-phone only on a laptop looks even stronger now compared to the liability of tracking and interception of cell phones. Convenience is the gotcha.
- BrandonMarc 13y ago
  Rather than a light, every camera should have a lens cover. Some opaque object easy to slide in and out of place. A tiny piece of circular plastic would do. Along with the light which, as you mentioned, should be required to be hard-wired with the camera connection so that the camera cannot work without the light, perhaps the little sliding piece of plastic could work as an on/off switch. Imagine if every laptop & phone (and now, television) had one of these? Heck, right now I have countless electronic eyes staring at me ... television, laptop, phones that happen to be in the room. Can I be sure that nobody's watching me remotely? Hell no.

sillysaurus2 13y ago

is the concept of someone remotely turning your cellphone into a microphone fact or fiction? Is their any proof in either direction? It is fact. http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html Law enforcement absolutely has that capability, as well as turning your phone into a tracking beacon even when it's powered off. See here for more info and discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6722519

tptacek 13y ago
https://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/411539368990363648 https://twitter.com/mattblaze/status/411539368990363648
- sillysaurus2 13y ago
  I don't understand. I hold your opinion in high regard, because your views are almost always well-researched and supported; if not with evidence, then usually with experience. For what it's worth, I strive to express my views with the same quality and clarity as your expressions. So your reply is somewhat disconcerting, because it seems to indicate that you think the claims are bogus. And if you think so, then you have good reason to feel that way, since almost all of your views are, well, reasonable. (An aside: would you please write something articulating your deep hatred for Soylent? It was shocking to discover you felt that way, and that I didn't see anything wrong with Soylent, so I've been silently hoping to someday see a writeup from you in order that I may find reasons to change my own view.) In short, I accepted long ago that there's roughly zero chance of going through life without unintentionally believing in crazy things. Everyone does, at some point. Therefore the most important thing is to keep my eyes open for evidence of my own crazy beliefs, so that I can constantly reevaluate them. So your reply seems to be strong evidence that someone I respect thinks I'm being a bit bogus regarding cell phone tracking. If that's the case, then I'd love to hear your thoughts on the subject so that I can revise my own.
  - seiji 13y ago
    Off = powered down = no broadcasting or receiving. Now, in most devices these days you can't be sure "Off" is actually "Off." I bet many Android phones lie about "turning off" and just go into a low-power-with-quick-reboot sleep mode. If you successfully redefine Off to be Maybe Off, nobody can argue with you because you changed the terms of reality.

tedunangst 13y ago

Here's a thought. Remember that whole parallel construction thing everybody was freaking out about? The NSA passes the FBI a tip. The FBI needs to get this tip admitted into evidence, so they claim they overheard it on the phone. One snag: the target's cell phone was turned off when the conversation took place. Solution: a magic bug that can listen even when it's turned off.

0xdeadbeefbabe 13y ago

It seems to be a fact, but have a little imagination. Your phone is leaking lots of data, data that is so useful to investigators that they'd prefer not to listen to you because they'd have to assign someone to interpret what was meant minute by minute.