4 ms·

I don't think teaching programming concepts to kindergarteners is silly. I learned to program at about that age (first grade, technically), and things like Robo

I don't think teaching programming concepts to kindergarteners is silly. I learned to program at about that age (first grade, technically), and things like Robot Turtles [1] can be taught to kids who can't even read. [1] http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/danshapiro/robot-turtles-the-board-game-for-little-programmer http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/danshapiro/robot-turtles...

sigzero 13y ago
Shouldn't we teach the basics to a degree that everyone is passing those instead of wasting money at that level? And I do think it would be a waste.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Shouldn't we teach the basics to a degree that everyone is passing those instead of wasting money at that level? I don't think "teach the basics to a a degree that everyone is passing" and "wasting money" are a fair description of the relevant options.
- olefoo 13y ago
  You have a very utilitarian view of education that I find uncomfortably limiting. My own view is that rather than worrying about children 'passing' some arbitrary standardised test. We should be aiming at teaching children to think critically and have a large intellectual toolbox to work from. Of course; I'm weird in that I think children should be introduced to as many concepts as possible as early as possible and that the principles underlying calculus and differential equations are exactly the sort of thing that a bright 7 year old might find engaging intellectual toys. I also think that education is a lifelong process and needs to include both regimented group learning and self-guided exploration.
- danneu 13y ago
  Isn't the challenge of education-planning how to compel students, not how to agree that we need to? Perhaps exposing children to more novelty and creative outlets presents more opportunities to hook their interest.
mistercow 13y ago
My dad taught me to use HyperCard and ResEdit at about that age as well. This idea that it's futile to try to teach young kids to code is bizarre to me. I can only assume that it comes from people trusting their intuitions without actually observing reality.
- vezzy-fnord 13y ago
  It's futile unless they show voluntary interest in the subject. I started off in elementary school, but it was motivated entirely through my own volition.
- seiji 13y ago
  We should teach 5 year olds computers with technology available in 1993. QBASIC, Logo, HyperCard, ... (Not joking.)
  - pjungwir 13y ago
    Yes! My oldest is 4.5, and I'm thinking about how to assemble a text-only machine to force typing, learning commands, navigating the file system, etc. Might as well start him off with linux and bash instead of DOS and batch, though. :-)
  - mathattack 13y ago
    Doesn't MIT's Scratch [1] accomplish this? I was going to default to this. I'm wondering how much reading, writing and math my kids need to have before starting this. Reading complex sentences and addition and multiplication of single digits? (Wrong thread to get started on what EWD [2] thinks on this...) [1] http://scratch.mit.edu http://scratch.mit.edu [2] http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1036.html http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EW...
Guvante 13y ago
Showing children that a simple set of instructions can allow a complex operation to be performed is incredibly important. Heck when talking to my non-programming friends the #1 issue is how they think the trade is too complex to dive into. While I would not wish that everyone becomes a software engineer, programming is quite useful.
mathetic 13y ago
I agree. In Cambridge, UK, there are some phd students from Computer Laboratory in University of Cambridge, who go and teach first grade kids concepts in computer science. This does not necessarily involve coding. I heard they were teaching them how packets work by making some kids routers, one client, on server and packets etc.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
We did a simple example, which was to give all the students in the class one "step" as a program. And we lined them up. And then we did the towers of Hanoi solution (although none of them could solve the problem prior to us running it). If you're interested in recreating this. You just need flash cards (with the step on them) and a couple of colored hats (I think it was three) to represent branch targets. So card might be "Look at the towers tell the person behind you which has the largest disk" and that persons card is "if the largest disk is on the left one, the person in the green hat goes next", the person behind them has "if the largest is on the center pole the person in the purple hat goes next", the person behind them has "move the disk on the left pole to the right pole" etc. When you "jump" all the kids go to the back of the line except the one with the green/purple/yellow hat and that kid does their step then the one behind them etc. Its a lot of fun. And you can mix up the line and watch the disks get put into very strange arrangements.

sigzero 13y ago

Shouldn't we teach the basics to a degree that everyone is passing those instead of wasting money at that level? And I do think it would be a waste.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> Shouldn't we teach the basics to a degree that everyone is passing those instead of wasting money at that level? I don't think "teach the basics to a a degree that everyone is passing" and "wasting money" are a fair description of the relevant options.
olefoo 13y ago
You have a very utilitarian view of education that I find uncomfortably limiting. My own view is that rather than worrying about children 'passing' some arbitrary standardised test. We should be aiming at teaching children to think critically and have a large intellectual toolbox to work from. Of course; I'm weird in that I think children should be introduced to as many concepts as possible as early as possible and that the principles underlying calculus and differential equations are exactly the sort of thing that a bright 7 year old might find engaging intellectual toys. I also think that education is a lifelong process and needs to include both regimented group learning and self-guided exploration.
danneu 13y ago
Isn't the challenge of education-planning how to compel students, not how to agree that we need to? Perhaps exposing children to more novelty and creative outlets presents more opportunities to hook their interest.

mistercow 13y ago

My dad taught me to use HyperCard and ResEdit at about that age as well. This idea that it's futile to try to teach young kids to code is bizarre to me. I can only assume that it comes from people trusting their intuitions without actually observing reality.

vezzy-fnord 13y ago
It's futile unless they show voluntary interest in the subject. I started off in elementary school, but it was motivated entirely through my own volition.
seiji 13y ago
We should teach 5 year olds computers with technology available in 1993. QBASIC, Logo, HyperCard, ... (Not joking.)
- pjungwir 13y ago
  Yes! My oldest is 4.5, and I'm thinking about how to assemble a text-only machine to force typing, learning commands, navigating the file system, etc. Might as well start him off with linux and bash instead of DOS and batch, though. :-)
- mathattack 13y ago
  Doesn't MIT's Scratch [1] accomplish this? I was going to default to this. I'm wondering how much reading, writing and math my kids need to have before starting this. Reading complex sentences and addition and multiplication of single digits? (Wrong thread to get started on what EWD [2] thinks on this...) [1] http://scratch.mit.edu http://scratch.mit.edu [2] http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1036.html http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EW...

Guvante 13y ago

Showing children that a simple set of instructions can allow a complex operation to be performed is incredibly important. Heck when talking to my non-programming friends the #1 issue is how they think the trade is too complex to dive into. While I would not wish that everyone becomes a software engineer, programming is quite useful.

mathetic 13y ago

I agree. In Cambridge, UK, there are some phd students from Computer Laboratory in University of Cambridge, who go and teach first grade kids concepts in computer science. This does not necessarily involve coding. I heard they were teaching them how packets work by making some kids routers, one client, on server and packets etc.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

We did a simple example, which was to give all the students in the class one "step" as a program. And we lined them up. And then we did the towers of Hanoi solution (although none of them could solve the problem prior to us running it). If you're interested in recreating this. You just need flash cards (with the step on them) and a couple of colored hats (I think it was three) to represent branch targets. So card might be "Look at the towers tell the person behind you which has the largest disk" and that persons card is "if the largest disk is on the left one, the person in the green hat goes next", the person behind them has "if the largest is on the center pole the person in the purple hat goes next", the person behind them has "move the disk on the left pole to the right pole" etc. When you "jump" all the kids go to the back of the line except the one with the green/purple/yellow hat and that kid does their step then the one behind them etc. Its a lot of fun. And you can mix up the line and watch the disks get put into very strange arrangements.