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Ecma forms TC52 for Dart Standardization

48 points by spankalee 13y ago

anarchy8 13y ago
Looking forward to the day when we're not afraid to abandon Javascript and look towards a more competitive development ecosystem in browsers.
- spartanatreyu 13y ago
  doubt that will happen anytime soon, javascript will just become more like c/c++ in the next 5-10 years
  - boie0025 13y ago
    Indeed, Node has given JS quite an incredible boost.
  - troymc 13y ago
    When developing low-level or systems software, there are many programming languages to choose from, but C and C++ continue to be often-chosen. When developing software to run natively in all browsers, there's one choice: JavaScript. So the comparison isn't fair. C/C++ had to prove themselves among many competitors. JavaScript "won" by default, not because it's somehow the best choice. I'm glad to see other options like Dart and PNaCl coming along. It's about time.
alayne 13y ago
This makes it sound like they want another VM alongside existing JS VMs specifically for Dart. Isn't that making the same mistake again of not specifying a general purpose VM?
- azakai 13y ago
  There is really no such thing as a perfect general purpose VM that can run everything. This is touched upon in the Dart FAQ https://www.dartlang.org/support/faq.html#q-why-didnt-google-build-a-bytecode-vm-targetable-by-multiple-languages-including-dart https://www.dartlang.org/support/faq.html#q-why-didnt-google... and many others, for example me http://mozakai.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-elusive-universal-web-bytecode.html http://mozakai.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-elusive-universal-we...
chrismorgan 13y ago
> … the home of standards such as JavaScript, Eiffel, and C# … Eiffel, scarcely used; C#, used only for some Windows development. (I know I am misrepresenting each of these languages slightly, C# in particular as I'm ignoring Mono.)
- sanxiyn 13y ago
  Why are you ignoring Mono?
- rjbwork 13y ago
  Not just mono, but Xamarin and Unity are huge, if interrelated uses of C#.
purepraxis 13y ago
Great to see Dart moving towards standardization. I've used it for a few projects now and have been really impressed with how quickly it's matured and how much fun it is to develop in.
agentultra 13y ago
I like Dart after trying it. The tools are great and the libraries are starting to come into their own. I much prefer doing WebGL development in Dart than Javascript. However the adoption of a new VM, I think, will be challenging. It will be telling if Mozilla will develop one if this actually goes through standardization. My instinct tells me they won't and that Dart will continue on as another "transpilation," language.

48 points by spankalee 13y ago

Looking forward to the day when we're not afraid to abandon Javascript and look towards a more competitive development ecosystem in browsers.

spartanatreyu 13y ago
doubt that will happen anytime soon, javascript will just become more like c/c++ in the next 5-10 years
- boie0025 13y ago
  Indeed, Node has given JS quite an incredible boost.
- troymc 13y ago
  When developing low-level or systems software, there are many programming languages to choose from, but C and C++ continue to be often-chosen. When developing software to run natively in all browsers, there's one choice: JavaScript. So the comparison isn't fair. C/C++ had to prove themselves among many competitors. JavaScript "won" by default, not because it's somehow the best choice. I'm glad to see other options like Dart and PNaCl coming along. It's about time.

alayne 13y ago

This makes it sound like they want another VM alongside existing JS VMs specifically for Dart. Isn't that making the same mistake again of not specifying a general purpose VM?

azakai 13y ago
There is really no such thing as a perfect general purpose VM that can run everything. This is touched upon in the Dart FAQ https://www.dartlang.org/support/faq.html#q-why-didnt-google-build-a-bytecode-vm-targetable-by-multiple-languages-including-dart https://www.dartlang.org/support/faq.html#q-why-didnt-google... and many others, for example me http://mozakai.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-elusive-universal-web-bytecode.html http://mozakai.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-elusive-universal-we...

chrismorgan 13y ago

> … the home of standards such as JavaScript, Eiffel, and C# … Eiffel, scarcely used; C#, used only for some Windows development. (I know I am misrepresenting each of these languages slightly, C# in particular as I'm ignoring Mono.)

sanxiyn 13y ago
Why are you ignoring Mono?
rjbwork 13y ago
Not just mono, but Xamarin and Unity are huge, if interrelated uses of C#.

purepraxis 13y ago

Great to see Dart moving towards standardization. I've used it for a few projects now and have been really impressed with how quickly it's matured and how much fun it is to develop in.

agentultra 13y ago

I like Dart after trying it. The tools are great and the libraries are starting to come into their own. I much prefer doing WebGL development in Dart than Javascript. However the adoption of a new VM, I think, will be challenging. It will be telling if Mozilla will develop one if this actually goes through standardization. My instinct tells me they won't and that Dart will continue on as another "transpilation," language.