5 ms·

This is standard procedure. The alleged criminal is remanded typically up to 4 weeks at a time, and optionally isolated. This can go on for a bit if the alleged

by Erwin 13y ago

This is standard procedure. The alleged criminal is remanded typically up to 4 weeks at a time, and optionally isolated. This can go on for a bit if the alleged criminal is expected to flee, destroy evidence and that type of thing. The headline and the article fail to stress why he's being imprisoned. It's unrelated to Pirate Bay, and has due to extensive intrusion into Danish government and police databases. Don't mistake this "cracker" type for some kind of brave fighter against restrictive copyright regime. According to the article he's in solitary confinement.. "among violent criminals".

lechevalierd3on 13y ago
Yeah, this seems like this could be totally unrelated to TPB.
- stephenson 13y ago
  It has nothing to do with TPB. He is accused of braking into the danish police systems, including out driver license database that holds our Civil Registration System number witch can easily be used to identity fraud. And this is just one of the accusations.
sillysaurus2 13y ago
So all authorities have to do to extinguish any "copyright freedom fighter" is to invent charges against them. Then apparently everyone will be A-OK with throwing them in solitary. I think it's unlikely. But I also think authorities are sometimes corrupt. The only reason we know anything about this case is because they told us things. We're quick to believe them. Why?
- Svip 13y ago
  You think the charges are invented? Why?
  - vishaldpatel 13y ago
    Has he been proven guilty?
    - tlow 13y ago
      nope.
  - jbri 13y ago
    It shouldn't matter whether these specific charges are made-up or not. At this point they're unproven allegations, and it's up to a court to decide whether they're valid or not. It's important to realize that anytime you give the police power over people still facing trial, you give them that same power over anyone they can fabricate spurious charges against. That's why it's important to have things like warrants and pre-trial court orders, so that there's some accountability when the police detain someone over unproven allegations.
    - Svip 13y ago
      Yes. And there has been. He was extradited by a Swedish court. And he was put in solidarity by a Danish court before his trial begins. Or is that not a close to warrant/pre-trial court orders?
      - jbri 13y ago
        I'll confess I'm not intimately familiar with the details of this case, and I'm speaking in generalities. But still - it doesn't matter whether the charges are invented or not, or even what those charges are. What matters is that a judge (not the police) ruled that he should be held until his trial.
        ivanca 13y ago
        Is extremely wrong that a system trying to impose justice put its suspects under psychological abuse before trial, making them hate society, and therefore increasing the possibility of actually becoming criminals.
- haberman 13y ago
  Or we could turn this around: all a criminal has to do to win support from the technorati is to help people pirate movies before committing a different crime. Then apparently everyone will find them to be terribly persecuted.
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    No, if he broke into other people's property (and not merely for the challenge of cracking a safe, i.e. malicious intent) then I hope to see him stand for his crimes. I'm only suggesting that we shouldn't be so quick to take the word of the authorities. Many powerful people would be delighted to see the creators of TPB suffer punishment, justified or not. We should reserve judgement until hearing evidence.
    - ivanca 13y ago
      In this world where the USA government throws billions of dollars to spy its own citizens and foreigners it wouldn't be one bit surprising if we discover media companies are spending millions of dollars trying to create false accusations to bring its enemies down (it would explain Assange trial too)
      - Svip 13y ago
        Maybe. But no private company has charged Svartholm Warg with anything in this case. He is only being charged by the Danish authorities. And Danish authorities are not exactly known for their ruthlessness.
        ivanca 13y ago
        Money can make people do things they are 'not known for', and I'm talking about completely made-up crimes because for them it's way smarter: 1) Avoid tarnishing the public view of their media company where PR is very important. 2) Supporters seem conflicted ("is about other thing!"). 3) The penalty of those crimes is not controversial (in this case: security information theft) 4) Therefore it doesn't cause a big media fuzz 5) Legislation about the crimes he is being charged with are not likely to change in the future so no new laws with retroactive repercussions will set him free. 6) It still inflicts fear upon similar enemies, because he's still know as "the pirate bay guy who is in jail" not the "the cracker who stole confidential data who is in jail"
- tptacek 13y ago
  Well, that logic works for any group of people and any possible crime. "All authorities have to do to extinguish 'pro life groups' is invent mail fraud charges against them".
- gcb0 13y ago
  crimes are usually measured in damage to society. In monetary value. And if we learned anything from former transportation or Drug cases and copyright cases, a copied music has far greater monetary impact to society than a life.
mjn 13y ago
It's a procedure that exists, but it's nowhere near standard procedure in Denmark, as far as I know. The 4-week solitary remand is usually used for terrorism suspects, situations more like this one: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/04/29/Denmark-to-hold-terror-suspects-4-weeks/UPI-50921335708303/ http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/04/29/Denmark-to... Even violent criminals don't usually have such a procedure applied. If you got in a knife fight and stabbed someone, you might well be held pending trial, but not usually in solitary confinement. For non-violent offenses, being held pending trial at all is rare. My guess is that the relationship to police databases got this filed under either "terrorism" or something that rhymes with it, and therefore it's being treated as a "national security" crime rather than an ordinary crime.
- benologist 13y ago
  Even the worst violent offenders are heavily limited in the number of victims they can produce. Using a computer can affect many orders of magnitude beyond that so why exactly should "non-violent" prisoners be given more freedoms and better treatment? Is this "less bad" than mugging someone? "He is accused of braking into the danish police systems, including out driver license database that holds our Civil Registration System number witch can easily be used to identity fraud" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6897572 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6897572
  - DanBC 13y ago
    It's not about bad or less bad, it's about risk to people. A violent criminal poses greater risk of harm, and thus is locked up. A non violent criminal can commit very many offences, and sometimes those offences cause great distress (fraud which removes a person's life savings, for example), and their access to the tools of their criminal trade should be restricted, but that doesn't usually require solitary confinement.
    - benologist 13y ago
      I would argue solitary is the only rationale option for non-violent crime like this - anything less requires the person to respect limitations on communication they can circumvent if they want.
marincounty 13y ago
He's no "cracker" type. Actually, he's just a hacker, and a guy who tried to fight "the man". I'm afraid modern man has morphed into castrated, hypocrites? They do what they are told. They actually like Facebook, and think Mark is a genius. I guess I'm from a different generation?
- Kiro 13y ago
  You obviously have no clue who anakata is. He's definitely the cracker type and was infamous long before The Pirate Bay.
6d0debc071 13y ago
Standard procedure or not, regardless of their crimes: Being held in isolation without even access to books and things like that, if we go by the article, is utterly atrocious for a civilised country to inflict on anyone. It's not like we don't know that isolation and boredom are destructive to people's mental states. This seems like cruelty without a reasonable purpose behind it, hurting someone for the joy of hurting them.
mcantelon 13y ago
Solitary confinement is torture. So, cracking or not, a bizarre response to a non-violent crime.
4ad 13y ago
Among doesn't mean along.

by Erwin 13y ago

lechevalierd3on 13y ago

Yeah, this seems like this could be totally unrelated to TPB.

stephenson 13y ago
It has nothing to do with TPB. He is accused of braking into the danish police systems, including out driver license database that holds our Civil Registration System number witch can easily be used to identity fraud. And this is just one of the accusations.

sillysaurus2 13y ago

So all authorities have to do to extinguish any "copyright freedom fighter" is to invent charges against them. Then apparently everyone will be A-OK with throwing them in solitary. I think it's unlikely. But I also think authorities are sometimes corrupt. The only reason we know anything about this case is because they told us things. We're quick to believe them. Why?

Svip 13y ago
You think the charges are invented? Why?
- vishaldpatel 13y ago
  Has he been proven guilty?
  - tlow 13y ago
    nope.
- jbri 13y ago
  It shouldn't matter whether these specific charges are made-up or not. At this point they're unproven allegations, and it's up to a court to decide whether they're valid or not. It's important to realize that anytime you give the police power over people still facing trial, you give them that same power over anyone they can fabricate spurious charges against. That's why it's important to have things like warrants and pre-trial court orders, so that there's some accountability when the police detain someone over unproven allegations.
  - Svip 13y ago
    Yes. And there has been. He was extradited by a Swedish court. And he was put in solidarity by a Danish court before his trial begins. Or is that not a close to warrant/pre-trial court orders?
    - jbri 13y ago
      I'll confess I'm not intimately familiar with the details of this case, and I'm speaking in generalities. But still - it doesn't matter whether the charges are invented or not, or even what those charges are. What matters is that a judge (not the police) ruled that he should be held until his trial.
      - ivanca 13y ago
        Is extremely wrong that a system trying to impose justice put its suspects under psychological abuse before trial, making them hate society, and therefore increasing the possibility of actually becoming criminals.
haberman 13y ago
Or we could turn this around: all a criminal has to do to win support from the technorati is to help people pirate movies before committing a different crime. Then apparently everyone will find them to be terribly persecuted.
- sillysaurus2 13y ago
  No, if he broke into other people's property (and not merely for the challenge of cracking a safe, i.e. malicious intent) then I hope to see him stand for his crimes. I'm only suggesting that we shouldn't be so quick to take the word of the authorities. Many powerful people would be delighted to see the creators of TPB suffer punishment, justified or not. We should reserve judgement until hearing evidence.
  - ivanca 13y ago
    In this world where the USA government throws billions of dollars to spy its own citizens and foreigners it wouldn't be one bit surprising if we discover media companies are spending millions of dollars trying to create false accusations to bring its enemies down (it would explain Assange trial too)
    - Svip 13y ago
      Maybe. But no private company has charged Svartholm Warg with anything in this case. He is only being charged by the Danish authorities. And Danish authorities are not exactly known for their ruthlessness.
      - ivanca 13y ago
        Money can make people do things they are 'not known for', and I'm talking about completely made-up crimes because for them it's way smarter: 1) Avoid tarnishing the public view of their media company where PR is very important. 2) Supporters seem conflicted ("is about other thing!"). 3) The penalty of those crimes is not controversial (in this case: security information theft) 4) Therefore it doesn't cause a big media fuzz 5) Legislation about the crimes he is being charged with are not likely to change in the future so no new laws with retroactive repercussions will set him free. 6) It still inflicts fear upon similar enemies, because he's still know as "the pirate bay guy who is in jail" not the "the cracker who stole confidential data who is in jail"
tptacek 13y ago
Well, that logic works for any group of people and any possible crime. "All authorities have to do to extinguish 'pro life groups' is invent mail fraud charges against them".
gcb0 13y ago
crimes are usually measured in damage to society. In monetary value. And if we learned anything from former transportation or Drug cases and copyright cases, a copied music has far greater monetary impact to society than a life.

mjn 13y ago

It's a procedure that exists, but it's nowhere near standard procedure in Denmark, as far as I know. The 4-week solitary remand is usually used for terrorism suspects, situations more like this one: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/04/29/Denmark-to-hold-terror-suspects-4-weeks/UPI-50921335708303/ http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2012/04/29/Denmark-to... Even violent criminals don't usually have such a procedure applied. If you got in a knife fight and stabbed someone, you might well be held pending trial, but not usually in solitary confinement. For non-violent offenses, being held pending trial at all is rare. My guess is that the relationship to police databases got this filed under either "terrorism" or something that rhymes with it, and therefore it's being treated as a "national security" crime rather than an ordinary crime.

benologist 13y ago
Even the worst violent offenders are heavily limited in the number of victims they can produce. Using a computer can affect many orders of magnitude beyond that so why exactly should "non-violent" prisoners be given more freedoms and better treatment? Is this "less bad" than mugging someone? "He is accused of braking into the danish police systems, including out driver license database that holds our Civil Registration System number witch can easily be used to identity fraud" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6897572 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6897572
- DanBC 13y ago
  It's not about bad or less bad, it's about risk to people. A violent criminal poses greater risk of harm, and thus is locked up. A non violent criminal can commit very many offences, and sometimes those offences cause great distress (fraud which removes a person's life savings, for example), and their access to the tools of their criminal trade should be restricted, but that doesn't usually require solitary confinement.
  - benologist 13y ago
    I would argue solitary is the only rationale option for non-violent crime like this - anything less requires the person to respect limitations on communication they can circumvent if they want.

marincounty 13y ago

He's no "cracker" type. Actually, he's just a hacker, and a guy who tried to fight "the man". I'm afraid modern man has morphed into castrated, hypocrites? They do what they are told. They actually like Facebook, and think Mark is a genius. I guess I'm from a different generation?

Kiro 13y ago
You obviously have no clue who anakata is. He's definitely the cracker type and was infamous long before The Pirate Bay.

6d0debc071 13y ago

Standard procedure or not, regardless of their crimes: Being held in isolation without even access to books and things like that, if we go by the article, is utterly atrocious for a civilised country to inflict on anyone. It's not like we don't know that isolation and boredom are destructive to people's mental states. This seems like cruelty without a reasonable purpose behind it, hurting someone for the joy of hurting them.

mcantelon 13y ago

Solitary confinement is torture. So, cracking or not, a bizarre response to a non-violent crime.

4ad 13y ago

Among doesn't mean along.