4 ms·

I'm a human and I'm really going to lose business over this policy.

by johnnyg 13y ago

jonknee 13y ago
How so? If you make money through Google Shopping you should follow the rules. If you don't, well then no loss to you.
- commentzorro 13y ago
  Like the OP said, because of the photos. In business a photo can often make the difference between a sale or no sale, or more important, which shop the sale goes to. Some businesses, like fashion, are almost entirely "photo" based. Others, like food, cars, etc. rely on it extensively. Here's an example in which, for arguments sake, we state that all non-photo factors are equal and the best they can be. Your business spends $100,000 a year to have top quality photos taken for the products you sell and you find the photos lead to a five to ten fold improvement in sales vs. stock or no photos. Now say all your competitors just steal your images and use them for their sites. Your sales drop back to where they were and your advantage is gone. And now you've got to make up the $100,000 to top it all off. Having a watermark won't stop lesser competitors from sealing your image, but other "on par" competitors will likely not due to potential litigation. If you don't have a watermark everyone steals it with the line, "I didn't know it was something I couldn't use ... my web guys just found it on the internet. I'll talk with them." (or whatever) So now you have to constantly police the internet for competitors using your images, deal with take-downs, and lawyers. Hope I've cleared things up a bit.
  - jonknee 13y ago
    ... Then don't use advertising services like Google Shopping. It's a pretty easy equation--do you make enough money through Google Shopping that it makes up for any potential losses from others stealing your image (which you can of course still go after legally)?
    - scrollbar 13y ago
      Don't like one of your professors this semester? It's a pretty easy equation. Drop out of college. Not happy with NSA collecting dragnet surveillance on you? It's a pretty easy equation. Renounce your citizenship. Neighbor making too much noise at night? It's a pretty easy equation. Move out (or kill them?) Why can't someone that's party to a relationship make a complaint about an aspect of that relationship?
    - commentzorro 13y ago
      I think you're missing the point, which is that not allowing watermarks _is_ the problem (and what the OP was trying to say through his frustration). There should be no need to do any sort of cost benefit analysis nor to police the internet. In other words, a cry for Google to change the policy to minimize the problem rather than just abandoning Google Shopping.
    - samuellevy 13y ago
      I hate this attitude that 'If you're using it, you have no right to complain'. Sure, you can always vote with your feet, but there are often times when I really like a service, but a certain feature, or a certain decision really irks me. In this case, using google shopping increases OP's revenue, which is great, but the "don't watermark your images" rule means losing out on one part of their competitive advantage (i.e. having the best product pictures which show exactly what the customer wants/needs to see). The answer isn't to stop using Google Shopping, and the answer isn't to 'put up or shut up'. I would hope that someone at Google Shopping might be able to figure out a resolution with OP that is the best for everyone involved - i.e. doesn't break google's TOS, and doesn't leave OP paying to produce high-quality photos that his competition will steal.
timfrietas 13y ago
Can you explain in more detail? I am actually curious, because as a customer I hate the watermarks. Do you think they help with brand awareness, or driving traffic to your own site?
- johnnyg 13y ago
  Summary: If we publish our home brewed content without watermarks and it is lifted off google and used to compete against us, we have no effective recourse. Detail: In our company, one advancement track is from Customer Service to Products. It seems like a good and obvious thing to do, but typically photos and product materials in our space are produced by teams without direct experience helping customers make CPAP equipment work for them. We often find that the stock images and materials available to us are ineffective for internet customers, as they are often designed to target physicians and the owners of traditional brick and mortar CPAP retailers. We have spent a lot of time and effort to do better. I believe we have. Our product presentations are end CPAP user driven and focused. We view both the images produced and the knowledge that produced them as an earned competitive advantage. We've had instances where we woke up to find anothercpapco.com copying our product catalog verbatim. I think software patents slow innovation and that the DRM situation in the music industry is bad. Yet, I made the decision to water mark our images in order to prove them stolen.
  - drcube 13y ago
    > If we publish our home brewed content without watermarks and it is lifted off google and used to compete against us, we have no effective recourse. Sure you do. Compete back. Preferably on price and quality of your product rather than the prettiness of your pictures. Anyone can take a picture of a CPAP machine. Yours aren't special, and if that's what's harming your business, you're doing something wrong. Probably a lot of things.
    - johnnyg 13y ago
      We do compete in those areas as well. Anyone can take a picture of a CPAP machine but not every can do so after 5 years experience serving customers using them. What angles do they want to see, what zoom shots make things most clear, how do those zooms relate to the specific features and usage of that machine/mask/product. CPAP is unfamiliar and visuals are the guide. It is important to do it right and hard to do it right. I think they are special as are the people who made them.

I'm a human and I'm really going to lose business over this policy.

by johnnyg 13y ago

I'm a human and I'm really going to lose business over this policy.

jonknee 13y ago

How so? If you make money through Google Shopping you should follow the rules. If you don't, well then no loss to you.

commentzorro 13y ago
Like the OP said, because of the photos. In business a photo can often make the difference between a sale or no sale, or more important, which shop the sale goes to. Some businesses, like fashion, are almost entirely "photo" based. Others, like food, cars, etc. rely on it extensively. Here's an example in which, for arguments sake, we state that all non-photo factors are equal and the best they can be. Your business spends $100,000 a year to have top quality photos taken for the products you sell and you find the photos lead to a five to ten fold improvement in sales vs. stock or no photos. Now say all your competitors just steal your images and use them for their sites. Your sales drop back to where they were and your advantage is gone. And now you've got to make up the $100,000 to top it all off. Having a watermark won't stop lesser competitors from sealing your image, but other "on par" competitors will likely not due to potential litigation. If you don't have a watermark everyone steals it with the line, "I didn't know it was something I couldn't use ... my web guys just found it on the internet. I'll talk with them." (or whatever) So now you have to constantly police the internet for competitors using your images, deal with take-downs, and lawyers. Hope I've cleared things up a bit.
- jonknee 13y ago
  ... Then don't use advertising services like Google Shopping. It's a pretty easy equation--do you make enough money through Google Shopping that it makes up for any potential losses from others stealing your image (which you can of course still go after legally)?
  - scrollbar 13y ago
    Don't like one of your professors this semester? It's a pretty easy equation. Drop out of college. Not happy with NSA collecting dragnet surveillance on you? It's a pretty easy equation. Renounce your citizenship. Neighbor making too much noise at night? It's a pretty easy equation. Move out (or kill them?) Why can't someone that's party to a relationship make a complaint about an aspect of that relationship?
  - commentzorro 13y ago
    I think you're missing the point, which is that not allowing watermarks _is_ the problem (and what the OP was trying to say through his frustration). There should be no need to do any sort of cost benefit analysis nor to police the internet. In other words, a cry for Google to change the policy to minimize the problem rather than just abandoning Google Shopping.
  - samuellevy 13y ago
    I hate this attitude that 'If you're using it, you have no right to complain'. Sure, you can always vote with your feet, but there are often times when I really like a service, but a certain feature, or a certain decision really irks me. In this case, using google shopping increases OP's revenue, which is great, but the "don't watermark your images" rule means losing out on one part of their competitive advantage (i.e. having the best product pictures which show exactly what the customer wants/needs to see). The answer isn't to stop using Google Shopping, and the answer isn't to 'put up or shut up'. I would hope that someone at Google Shopping might be able to figure out a resolution with OP that is the best for everyone involved - i.e. doesn't break google's TOS, and doesn't leave OP paying to produce high-quality photos that his competition will steal.

timfrietas 13y ago

Can you explain in more detail? I am actually curious, because as a customer I hate the watermarks. Do you think they help with brand awareness, or driving traffic to your own site?

johnnyg 13y ago
Summary: If we publish our home brewed content without watermarks and it is lifted off google and used to compete against us, we have no effective recourse. Detail: In our company, one advancement track is from Customer Service to Products. It seems like a good and obvious thing to do, but typically photos and product materials in our space are produced by teams without direct experience helping customers make CPAP equipment work for them. We often find that the stock images and materials available to us are ineffective for internet customers, as they are often designed to target physicians and the owners of traditional brick and mortar CPAP retailers. We have spent a lot of time and effort to do better. I believe we have. Our product presentations are end CPAP user driven and focused. We view both the images produced and the knowledge that produced them as an earned competitive advantage. We've had instances where we woke up to find anothercpapco.com copying our product catalog verbatim. I think software patents slow innovation and that the DRM situation in the music industry is bad. Yet, I made the decision to water mark our images in order to prove them stolen.
- drcube 13y ago
  > If we publish our home brewed content without watermarks and it is lifted off google and used to compete against us, we have no effective recourse. Sure you do. Compete back. Preferably on price and quality of your product rather than the prettiness of your pictures. Anyone can take a picture of a CPAP machine. Yours aren't special, and if that's what's harming your business, you're doing something wrong. Probably a lot of things.
  - johnnyg 13y ago
    We do compete in those areas as well. Anyone can take a picture of a CPAP machine but not every can do so after 5 years experience serving customers using them. What angles do they want to see, what zoom shots make things most clear, how do those zooms relate to the specific features and usage of that machine/mask/product. CPAP is unfamiliar and visuals are the guide. It is important to do it right and hard to do it right. I think they are special as are the people who made them.