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Can't you override GeoIP detection manually (and persistently using cookies)? While this is annoying, I don't think engineers are necessarily idiots. To the fi

by sanxiyn 13y ago

Can't you override GeoIP detection manually (and persistently using cookies)? While this is annoying, I don't think engineers are necessarily idiots. To the first approximation, nobody knows what Accept-Language is. I think it is more likely that Accept-Language is wrong because one installed the English version of operating systems or browsers, but wants the local version of websites, but does not know how to configure Accept-Language, than that Accept-Language is right because one moved to foreign countries and configured Accept-Language to one's preference. Do you have the evidence it is otherwise?

stephenr 13y ago
> Can't you override GeoIP detection manually No - as I said the pages I'm talking about provide no method to change the language. > To the first approximation, nobody knows what Accept-Language is. By nobody, you mean end users? No, of course they don't, but they know if their device displays english or thai menus/buttons/etc to them. So you're suggesting that this is not a case of idiot developers but instead that the Accept-Language header is not reliable, because there are whole countries of non-english speakers using devices that are mistakenly set to English, and they never worked out how to change the language to their local language, so they just randomly hit buttons/menu items they don't understand?
- Lorenz-Kraft 13y ago
  Jap, that might be the case ... for 0.001% of the users. I think using the browsers "Accept-Language" (beside manual language switch in the page) is the only way to go, because it respects the user decision. If the user is not able to make the decision: who are you (=developer) to make this decision?
  - sanxiyn 13y ago
    You can't claim to respect user decision when users don't know how to set what is supposedly "user decision".
    - Lorenz-Kraft 13y ago
      Jap, i think "users agree" is more to the point (i'm not nativ english speaking). The user "agrees" in some way (because he does not change, or let it change) to the "Accept-Language" header sent by the browser (which correlates to the used browser language (developers switching this value excluded))
- sanxiyn 13y ago
  No, there are whole lot of non-English speakers whose chrome is set to English but prefers content to be local. (I am one of them.) Accept-Language is definitely not reliable. The only question is which is more reliable, compared to GeoIP.
  - Lorenz-Kraft 13y ago
    Can you explain your setup by example? I don't get it. Your Chrome is using english for menues but your are natively speaking "france" for example? Can you explain why your are not switching Chrome to use "France" as your default language?
    - sanxiyn 13y ago
      I speak Korean. For me, it's a personal taste. I actually set Accept-Language to Korean even if my browser UI is English. This is becoming less a problem than in the past, but consider the case that your browser of choice is not available in your language of choice. For example, you speak Korean but there is no Korean version of the browser. Then it is natural to have English browser UI with preference for Korean content. More commonly, the browser may be available in your language but translation can be incomplete (only half the menu is translated, etc.), wrong (two different menu items are translated same -- did and does happen), or ugly (your language is going through the turbulent time debating how best to translate computer terms, and browser was translated by particularly opinionated people whose opinion you disagree with). Or some site may have compatibility problem with localized browser (getting rarer, but was problematic in the past). Or...
      - Lorenz-Kraft 13y ago
        Actually i still don't get it. The two described use cases result in a "Accept-Language" header that will be send to the server. So its the best choice to deliver the content in the language that the "Accept-Language" header says to use. If we are talking about location based content, for example sports news, its a slightly different story and needs a additional user option, or forced user option (like netflix videos that are only allowed to be viewed in US).

by sanxiyn 13y ago

stephenr 13y ago

> Can't you override GeoIP detection manually No - as I said the pages I'm talking about provide no method to change the language. > To the first approximation, nobody knows what Accept-Language is. By nobody, you mean end users? No, of course they don't, but they know if their device displays english or thai menus/buttons/etc to them. So you're suggesting that this is not a case of idiot developers but instead that the Accept-Language header is not reliable, because there are whole countries of non-english speakers using devices that are mistakenly set to English, and they never worked out how to change the language to their local language, so they just randomly hit buttons/menu items they don't understand?

Lorenz-Kraft 13y ago
Jap, that might be the case ... for 0.001% of the users. I think using the browsers "Accept-Language" (beside manual language switch in the page) is the only way to go, because it respects the user decision. If the user is not able to make the decision: who are you (=developer) to make this decision?
- sanxiyn 13y ago
  You can't claim to respect user decision when users don't know how to set what is supposedly "user decision".
  - Lorenz-Kraft 13y ago
    Jap, i think "users agree" is more to the point (i'm not nativ english speaking). The user "agrees" in some way (because he does not change, or let it change) to the "Accept-Language" header sent by the browser (which correlates to the used browser language (developers switching this value excluded))
sanxiyn 13y ago
No, there are whole lot of non-English speakers whose chrome is set to English but prefers content to be local. (I am one of them.) Accept-Language is definitely not reliable. The only question is which is more reliable, compared to GeoIP.
- Lorenz-Kraft 13y ago
  Can you explain your setup by example? I don't get it. Your Chrome is using english for menues but your are natively speaking "france" for example? Can you explain why your are not switching Chrome to use "France" as your default language?
  - sanxiyn 13y ago
    I speak Korean. For me, it's a personal taste. I actually set Accept-Language to Korean even if my browser UI is English. This is becoming less a problem than in the past, but consider the case that your browser of choice is not available in your language of choice. For example, you speak Korean but there is no Korean version of the browser. Then it is natural to have English browser UI with preference for Korean content. More commonly, the browser may be available in your language but translation can be incomplete (only half the menu is translated, etc.), wrong (two different menu items are translated same -- did and does happen), or ugly (your language is going through the turbulent time debating how best to translate computer terms, and browser was translated by particularly opinionated people whose opinion you disagree with). Or some site may have compatibility problem with localized browser (getting rarer, but was problematic in the past). Or...
    - Lorenz-Kraft 13y ago
      Actually i still don't get it. The two described use cases result in a "Accept-Language" header that will be send to the server. So its the best choice to deliver the content in the language that the "Accept-Language" header says to use. If we are talking about location based content, for example sports news, its a slightly different story and needs a additional user option, or forced user option (like netflix videos that are only allowed to be viewed in US).