3 ms·

Add Germany. Our Government is pro NSA and supports them as good as they can. They are dishonest self-servicing hypocrites.

by X4 13y ago

dasil003 13y ago
Really? A lot of the official criticism in the NSA scandal seems to have come out of Germany. I'm sure German government has their fare share of hypocrites as does any government, but I always thought of them as one of the better ones when it came to privacy issues.
- X4 13y ago
  I'm not sure what part of the media is omitted in the states to get that picture of Germany, but our counselor was pro NSA all the time and fully supporting their actions and against Snowden until she got "monitored" herself [1]. Then she started voicing her concerns. But only as late political act of gaining sympathy. However the public received her message broadly as selfish [2]. -- [1] http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/10/23/uk-germany-usa-spying-idUKBRE99M0XG20131023 http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/10/23/uk-germany-usa-spyi... [2] http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-smug-merkel-avoids-controversy-in-bid-for-reelection-a-921475.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-smug-merkel-av... [English]
  - reginaldjcooper 13y ago
    That's a big let down. I had the impression Germany basically as a whole was against the NSA stuff all along. Thanks for informing me, I'd rather be disappointed than wrong.
  - SyneRyder 13y ago
    I think that's a stretch: when I was in Germany earlier this year, support for Snowden was everywhere, lead story on the TV news, politicians discussing granting Snowden asylum, Snowden's face was everywhere... you couldn't avoid the story. Very different to coverage in other countries. Merkel is a friend of America & she's pragmatic - she won't torch the German-American relationship on a whim. It's perhaps more significant that even a pro-NSA, pro-American Chancellor now finds the actions of the NSA unconscionable & has to speak out.
    - X4 13y ago
      Yes, Snowden was everywhere for a long time in the media. But that doesn't change even a bit. Yes, we people were and are concerned, but as you may have heard in the media response. Otherwise it wouldn't keep aired for so long, just because of honest journalism. They need money too. Keep in mind that the "Snowden Affair" only reflects the morale of the citizen, not that of the government ruling their citizen. And the media can show it as often as they wish, but the German folk is the last to stand up for it. That's really no pessimism. I can see that there are protests in almost every country in the world against Governments, for all kinds of reasons. I don't know exactly why, but protests in Germany are much smaller and less frequent. I wish I knew why. Friends keep telling me that the folk is numb and doesn't care anymore, but I can't believe that. The situation is far worse in Italy and France where the entire media is ruled and owned by just one person for each country. However, that doesn't really help us. We're probably the first nation, that officially "fired" it's president (Wulff). According to him, it's all because he called and threatened the Media, which started the anti Wulff campaign. That resulted in the media humiliating his credibility publicly. However, he wasn't without fault, because he was cheapish and accepted offers from the industry. Now he's at court, because of this! You can see this kind selfishness spread through the whole political landscape in Germany. We have many parties, but only two that count: The red & The black party. Other parties are just their allies or help them to rip votes from their enemies. These main parties are very similar to the USA and represent the democrats vs conservatists. * The Red (SPD) party originally represented "The Workers".. * The Green (Grüne) party originally stood for the "The Environment & Green Energy". * The Black (CDU & CSU) party still represent the "Conservative pro Economy & Industry opportunists". * The Left party originally represented "leftism", but now just fights for survival and represents popular ideas. That back-story was needed, so that you can imagine how lost the fight is. Currently it's as clear as never before, that all political parties agree on most points. Interestingly, they keep their meetings and agreements secret from the public. But announce things like agreements between the Green, Black and Red party. Should be shocking, but you can't be shocked when it's slowly introduced like this.
alan_cx 13y ago
Go on, name one government which isn't. Actually, the UK government isnt being hypocritical, its brazenly up for anything the US instructs it to do. I do wish we would decide if we are a great little country which punches above it size, or a US lapbitch. Feckin' hilarious when you consider the frankly xenophobic hatred we have of the EU compared to the fawning over the US. As for Germany, didn't you chaps have an election in the middle of the scandal? Didn't various positions change a lot depending on polls, and of course the confirmation that the US spies on it's allies as much as its enemies? Watching some German politicians wriggling about as the Snowden information is revealed must be quite humiliating for the German people.
- PeterisP 13y ago
  >>Go on, name one government which isn't. China? Russia? Iran? Venezuela? Pretty much any country that refuses to do USA bidding is labeled 'enemy of the free world'.

Add Germany. Our Government is pro NSA and supports them as good as they can. They are dishonest self-servicing hypocrites.

by X4 13y ago

Add Germany. Our Government is pro NSA and supports them as good as they can. They are dishonest self-servicing hypocrites.

dasil003 13y ago

Really? A lot of the official criticism in the NSA scandal seems to have come out of Germany. I'm sure German government has their fare share of hypocrites as does any government, but I always thought of them as one of the better ones when it came to privacy issues.

X4 13y ago
I'm not sure what part of the media is omitted in the states to get that picture of Germany, but our counselor was pro NSA all the time and fully supporting their actions and against Snowden until she got "monitored" herself [1]. Then she started voicing her concerns. But only as late political act of gaining sympathy. However the public received her message broadly as selfish [2]. -- [1] http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/10/23/uk-germany-usa-spying-idUKBRE99M0XG20131023 http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/10/23/uk-germany-usa-spyi... [2] http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-smug-merkel-avoids-controversy-in-bid-for-reelection-a-921475.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-smug-merkel-av... [English]
- reginaldjcooper 13y ago
  That's a big let down. I had the impression Germany basically as a whole was against the NSA stuff all along. Thanks for informing me, I'd rather be disappointed than wrong.
- SyneRyder 13y ago
  I think that's a stretch: when I was in Germany earlier this year, support for Snowden was everywhere, lead story on the TV news, politicians discussing granting Snowden asylum, Snowden's face was everywhere... you couldn't avoid the story. Very different to coverage in other countries. Merkel is a friend of America & she's pragmatic - she won't torch the German-American relationship on a whim. It's perhaps more significant that even a pro-NSA, pro-American Chancellor now finds the actions of the NSA unconscionable & has to speak out.
  - X4 13y ago
    Yes, Snowden was everywhere for a long time in the media. But that doesn't change even a bit. Yes, we people were and are concerned, but as you may have heard in the media response. Otherwise it wouldn't keep aired for so long, just because of honest journalism. They need money too. Keep in mind that the "Snowden Affair" only reflects the morale of the citizen, not that of the government ruling their citizen. And the media can show it as often as they wish, but the German folk is the last to stand up for it. That's really no pessimism. I can see that there are protests in almost every country in the world against Governments, for all kinds of reasons. I don't know exactly why, but protests in Germany are much smaller and less frequent. I wish I knew why. Friends keep telling me that the folk is numb and doesn't care anymore, but I can't believe that. The situation is far worse in Italy and France where the entire media is ruled and owned by just one person for each country. However, that doesn't really help us. We're probably the first nation, that officially "fired" it's president (Wulff). According to him, it's all because he called and threatened the Media, which started the anti Wulff campaign. That resulted in the media humiliating his credibility publicly. However, he wasn't without fault, because he was cheapish and accepted offers from the industry. Now he's at court, because of this! You can see this kind selfishness spread through the whole political landscape in Germany. We have many parties, but only two that count: The red & The black party. Other parties are just their allies or help them to rip votes from their enemies. These main parties are very similar to the USA and represent the democrats vs conservatists. * The Red (SPD) party originally represented "The Workers".. * The Green (Grüne) party originally stood for the "The Environment & Green Energy". * The Black (CDU & CSU) party still represent the "Conservative pro Economy & Industry opportunists". * The Left party originally represented "leftism", but now just fights for survival and represents popular ideas. That back-story was needed, so that you can imagine how lost the fight is. Currently it's as clear as never before, that all political parties agree on most points. Interestingly, they keep their meetings and agreements secret from the public. But announce things like agreements between the Green, Black and Red party. Should be shocking, but you can't be shocked when it's slowly introduced like this.

alan_cx 13y ago

Go on, name one government which isn't. Actually, the UK government isnt being hypocritical, its brazenly up for anything the US instructs it to do. I do wish we would decide if we are a great little country which punches above it size, or a US lapbitch. Feckin' hilarious when you consider the frankly xenophobic hatred we have of the EU compared to the fawning over the US. As for Germany, didn't you chaps have an election in the middle of the scandal? Didn't various positions change a lot depending on polls, and of course the confirmation that the US spies on it's allies as much as its enemies? Watching some German politicians wriggling about as the Snowden information is revealed must be quite humiliating for the German people.

PeterisP 13y ago
>>Go on, name one government which isn't. China? Russia? Iran? Venezuela? Pretty much any country that refuses to do USA bidding is labeled 'enemy of the free world'.