5 ms·

Tobacco increases work capacity (2011)

31 points by swah 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- robobro 13y ago
  "I don't like tobacco" = "People who like tobacco are trolls"
  - goldenkey 13y ago
    "I never smoked" = "I don't like tobacco" = "People who like tobacco are trolls" I can say firsthand that nicotine is a decent nootropic from experience with both cigarettes and e-cigarettes (atomized nicotine suspension.) It's actually talked about quite a bit in /r/nootropics.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  Saying that something "seems wrong", is "ridiculous", "takes the cake", and "seems pretty ridiculous" doesn't seem like an argument. I prefer even bad science to innuendo and oh-please-come-on-common-sense.
- coldtea 13y ago
  "sophisticated troll", "ridiculous", "takes the cake", "pretty ridiculous". That's not a critique, that's just making fun of a study because it doesn't bode well with your prejudices. Especially since you can't even write a compelling, medical and scientific, counter argument. Effects of nicotine on the brain are well known, historically and scientifically. Nothing "ridiculous" about it. (That smoking also causes cancer, which is the major downside, is beside the point of course. They are not suggesting that it does not) >In fact, Europe has much more smokers than the US and its productivity hasn't grown as much since the 70s. Ever heard of the notion of "other factors at play too"?
smtddr 13y ago
If there's anyone on HN who actually believes this scientific study, please explain why. Right now I think this is complete garbage that I hope never reaches the eyes of young & impressionable people. Smoking is bad for you any benefit it may or may not have is completely eclipsed by the mountains upon mountains of evidence showing the damage to the human body. EDIT: Removing quotes per comments below. EDIT2: Ok, I guess even if there are 99 bad things that are caused by smoking it doesn't mean there can't be 1 or 2 things good from it.
- tlarkworthy 13y ago
  nicotine is a stimulant. That's been known forever. People when tired prop themselves up with coffee and cigarettes. So it seems totally believable. The study doesn't say the cancer and heart problems don't exist, or are outweighed in any way. It just says nicotine has some positive effects. Most drugs do ... that's why people take them. I smoke. I don't want to die. So that's why I am trying to switch to a vapouriser. Every time I give up smoking, I get hit by a crushing amount of work at some point and then I start smoking again, because it makes me more effecient and stay awake longer. If I could have the productivity without the cancer that would be brilliant.
  - visakanv 13y ago
    Yep, I remember that I always smoked more when tired, sleep deprived, etc.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  I'm not sure that your scare quotes around "scientific study" are an interesting enough argument to tempt people to put much of an effort into responding to you.
- jrockway 13y ago
  Just because something can kill you doesn't mean it doesn't also have benefits. Ultimately, one can decide for him or herself what's better: living longer, or getting more work done at work.
gwern 13y ago
Nicotine is great. I find it very useful. The claims about its stimulant effects are perfectly plausible. But there is zero need to consume/use tobacco to get nicotine.
- psbp 13y ago
  What methods do you recommend?
  - throwaway0094 13y ago
    From his Nictotine article, gum or patch. But e-cig might be fine too if the parts don't have lead or other hazardous substances in them, modulo maybe higher risk of addiction.
    - psbp 13y ago
      Patches and gum are really expensive.
      - throwaway0094 13y ago
        Compared to e-cigs, sure. Compared to food, or conventional cigarettes ... they're really really cheap. 96 x2mg gums for $22 comes out to 45¢/mg. I use maybe 0-2 (edit: gums (90¢-$1.80)) a day (I probably save at least that much by making sandwiches for lunch / not eating out -- I work from home).
  - refurb 13y ago
    Use an electronic cigarette (vaporizer) or use the OTC nicotine replacement therapies (gum, lozenges, sprays).
    - psbp 13y ago
      Any good ones? I researched a year or so ago and all the brands seemed a little bit..sketchy.
VladRussian2 13y ago
>The brain works better when it gets nicotine - almost like an optimized computer. Nicotine is a "work-drug" that enables its consumers to focus better and think faster. The brain also becomes more enduring, especially in smokers: Nicotine experiments show that smokers in prolonged working situations are able to maintain concentration for many hours longer than non-smokers. the same can be said about meth or other ADHD drugs. "Magic comes with a price" :) (i was a smoker of cigarettes for a decade and quit more than a decade ago)
- textminer 13y ago
  There's a functional and chemical different between the amphetamine salts in popular ADD drugs and methamphetamine (namely, a methyl group.)
  - throwaway0094 13y ago
    But perhaps more importantly, not a big subjective difference ;-).
  - lolwutf 13y ago
    This isn't what the original commenter said! Reread and realize he's talking about the subjective difference.
    - throwaway0094 13y ago
      It isn't now. It has been edited from the original.
- throwaway0094 13y ago
  Meth is only prescribed for ADHD in the US. Is it prescribed for ... nevermind, you edited your post. (Original said something to the effect of "meth is prescribed for drowsiness in pilots," which is inaccurate for the US.)
  - VladRussian2 13y ago
visakanv 13y ago
I've smoked on and off for about 6 years, with the past year being about 98% off. I can tell you that I do FEEL more focused and clear after a cigarette, but that all the negative side-effects that come with them are totally not worth it. If you really want a stimulant, stick with caffeine. I've actualy been meaning to write a blogpost about it. Some of the things I've noticed from being on and off cigarettes: Cigarettes (edit: nicotine, actually) are a depressant (EDIT: and a stimulant), they make the world feel less colourful (LITERALLY), less "noisy". EDIT: I realize I'm being psuedosciency and imprecise with the previous statement. I'm not sure about the precise distinctions between stimulant/upper/downer, etc. What I CAN tell you is that cigarettes have the following effects for me and my smoker peers, as far as I've known -> When I'm on cigarettes, my field of vision narrows, colours become duller, I'm marginally more focused on specific tasks, better able to "tune out 'random noise'". Whenever I go off cigarettes, the world feels a little overwhelming and chaotic for a while- my skin is more sensitive to the wind, my eyes are more sensitive to the light, the whole nervous system just gets overwhelmed (because the cigarettes kinda suppess them, in my opinion.) The short-term gain in focus is nothing great. You can get it by sitting in silence for a minute, breathing deeply, psyching yourself up with a youtube video. Not worth the damage you do to your eyes, nose, gums, teeth, not worth the cough, not worth the smell, the taste... all of that is underreported because there's a "frog in boiling water" effect- the damage is so cumulative that it feels tolerable. Yes, I remember when cigarettes helped focus my thoughts as a writer, or over conversations with friends... but honestly, taking a walk achieves superior returns, on both counts. -- Commander Shepard: "What's your opinion of this? The drugs, I mean." Legion: "These substances enhance short-term performance at the expense of long-term platform survivability. It is fundamentally similar to "over-clocking" geth hardware. We do so whenever necessary. However, should our platform be damaged by overclocking, we can be repaired. Why an organic would choose this is puzzling."
- pessimizer 13y ago
  >Cigarettes are a depressant You mean something different here than what most people mean when they say depressant. Are you saying that smoking makes you feel bad?
  - 13y ago
robobro 13y ago
Beautiful post, I know smoking always helps me!
sgtpepper 13y ago
Cigarettes are a nasty filthy habit... But I find a good cigar or pipe useful for clearing the mind when working on hard problems.
- sehr 13y ago
  Red Bulls are a nasty filthy habit... But I find a good espresso or americano to be useful for helping the mind stay alert. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cigar-smoking/AN01515 http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cigar-smoking/AN01515
  - sgtpepper 13y ago
    I'm not sure the relevance of the link.. I never said cigars were healthier.. certainly there are risks involved. But there's a huge gulf between a pack a day habit and a couple day a month indulgence.
r0m4n0 13y ago
You don't hear about the benefits of smoking because of the obvious downsides... I will contribute to the benefits. "Although tobacco smoke decreases life expectancy and quality of life, it may reduce the risk of PD by a third when compared to non-smokers" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_disease http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_disease

31 points by swah 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

robobro 13y ago
"I don't like tobacco" = "People who like tobacco are trolls"
- goldenkey 13y ago
  "I never smoked" = "I don't like tobacco" = "People who like tobacco are trolls" I can say firsthand that nicotine is a decent nootropic from experience with both cigarettes and e-cigarettes (atomized nicotine suspension.) It's actually talked about quite a bit in /r/nootropics.
pessimizer 13y ago
Saying that something "seems wrong", is "ridiculous", "takes the cake", and "seems pretty ridiculous" doesn't seem like an argument. I prefer even bad science to innuendo and oh-please-come-on-common-sense.
coldtea 13y ago
"sophisticated troll", "ridiculous", "takes the cake", "pretty ridiculous". That's not a critique, that's just making fun of a study because it doesn't bode well with your prejudices. Especially since you can't even write a compelling, medical and scientific, counter argument. Effects of nicotine on the brain are well known, historically and scientifically. Nothing "ridiculous" about it. (That smoking also causes cancer, which is the major downside, is beside the point of course. They are not suggesting that it does not) >In fact, Europe has much more smokers than the US and its productivity hasn't grown as much since the 70s. Ever heard of the notion of "other factors at play too"?

smtddr 13y ago

If there's anyone on HN who actually believes this scientific study, please explain why. Right now I think this is complete garbage that I hope never reaches the eyes of young & impressionable people. Smoking is bad for you any benefit it may or may not have is completely eclipsed by the mountains upon mountains of evidence showing the damage to the human body. EDIT: Removing quotes per comments below. EDIT2: Ok, I guess even if there are 99 bad things that are caused by smoking it doesn't mean there can't be 1 or 2 things good from it.

tlarkworthy 13y ago
nicotine is a stimulant. That's been known forever. People when tired prop themselves up with coffee and cigarettes. So it seems totally believable. The study doesn't say the cancer and heart problems don't exist, or are outweighed in any way. It just says nicotine has some positive effects. Most drugs do ... that's why people take them. I smoke. I don't want to die. So that's why I am trying to switch to a vapouriser. Every time I give up smoking, I get hit by a crushing amount of work at some point and then I start smoking again, because it makes me more effecient and stay awake longer. If I could have the productivity without the cancer that would be brilliant.
- visakanv 13y ago
  Yep, I remember that I always smoked more when tired, sleep deprived, etc.
pessimizer 13y ago
I'm not sure that your scare quotes around "scientific study" are an interesting enough argument to tempt people to put much of an effort into responding to you.
jrockway 13y ago
Just because something can kill you doesn't mean it doesn't also have benefits. Ultimately, one can decide for him or herself what's better: living longer, or getting more work done at work.

gwern 13y ago

Nicotine is great. I find it very useful. The claims about its stimulant effects are perfectly plausible. But there is zero need to consume/use tobacco to get nicotine.

psbp 13y ago
What methods do you recommend?
- throwaway0094 13y ago
  From his Nictotine article, gum or patch. But e-cig might be fine too if the parts don't have lead or other hazardous substances in them, modulo maybe higher risk of addiction.
  - psbp 13y ago
    Patches and gum are really expensive.
    - throwaway0094 13y ago
      Compared to e-cigs, sure. Compared to food, or conventional cigarettes ... they're really really cheap. 96 x2mg gums for $22 comes out to 45¢/mg. I use maybe 0-2 (edit: gums (90¢-$1.80)) a day (I probably save at least that much by making sandwiches for lunch / not eating out -- I work from home).
- refurb 13y ago
  Use an electronic cigarette (vaporizer) or use the OTC nicotine replacement therapies (gum, lozenges, sprays).
  - psbp 13y ago
    Any good ones? I researched a year or so ago and all the brands seemed a little bit..sketchy.

VladRussian2 13y ago

>The brain works better when it gets nicotine - almost like an optimized computer. Nicotine is a "work-drug" that enables its consumers to focus better and think faster. The brain also becomes more enduring, especially in smokers: Nicotine experiments show that smokers in prolonged working situations are able to maintain concentration for many hours longer than non-smokers. the same can be said about meth or other ADHD drugs. "Magic comes with a price" :) (i was a smoker of cigarettes for a decade and quit more than a decade ago)

textminer 13y ago
There's a functional and chemical different between the amphetamine salts in popular ADD drugs and methamphetamine (namely, a methyl group.)
- throwaway0094 13y ago
  But perhaps more importantly, not a big subjective difference ;-).
- lolwutf 13y ago
  This isn't what the original commenter said! Reread and realize he's talking about the subjective difference.
  - throwaway0094 13y ago
    It isn't now. It has been edited from the original.
throwaway0094 13y ago
Meth is only prescribed for ADHD in the US. Is it prescribed for ... nevermind, you edited your post. (Original said something to the effect of "meth is prescribed for drowsiness in pilots," which is inaccurate for the US.)
- VladRussian2 13y ago

visakanv 13y ago

I've smoked on and off for about 6 years, with the past year being about 98% off. I can tell you that I do FEEL more focused and clear after a cigarette, but that all the negative side-effects that come with them are totally not worth it. If you really want a stimulant, stick with caffeine. I've actualy been meaning to write a blogpost about it. Some of the things I've noticed from being on and off cigarettes: Cigarettes (edit: nicotine, actually) are a depressant (EDIT: and a stimulant), they make the world feel less colourful (LITERALLY), less "noisy". EDIT: I realize I'm being psuedosciency and imprecise with the previous statement. I'm not sure about the precise distinctions between stimulant/upper/downer, etc. What I CAN tell you is that cigarettes have the following effects for me and my smoker peers, as far as I've known -> When I'm on cigarettes, my field of vision narrows, colours become duller, I'm marginally more focused on specific tasks, better able to "tune out 'random noise'". Whenever I go off cigarettes, the world feels a little overwhelming and chaotic for a while- my skin is more sensitive to the wind, my eyes are more sensitive to the light, the whole nervous system just gets overwhelmed (because the cigarettes kinda suppess them, in my opinion.) The short-term gain in focus is nothing great. You can get it by sitting in silence for a minute, breathing deeply, psyching yourself up with a youtube video. Not worth the damage you do to your eyes, nose, gums, teeth, not worth the cough, not worth the smell, the taste... all of that is underreported because there's a "frog in boiling water" effect- the damage is so cumulative that it feels tolerable. Yes, I remember when cigarettes helped focus my thoughts as a writer, or over conversations with friends... but honestly, taking a walk achieves superior returns, on both counts. -- Commander Shepard: "What's your opinion of this? The drugs, I mean." Legion: "These substances enhance short-term performance at the expense of long-term platform survivability. It is fundamentally similar to "over-clocking" geth hardware. We do so whenever necessary. However, should our platform be damaged by overclocking, we can be repaired. Why an organic would choose this is puzzling."

pessimizer 13y ago
>Cigarettes are a depressant You mean something different here than what most people mean when they say depressant. Are you saying that smoking makes you feel bad?
- 13y ago

robobro 13y ago

Beautiful post, I know smoking always helps me!

sgtpepper 13y ago

Cigarettes are a nasty filthy habit... But I find a good cigar or pipe useful for clearing the mind when working on hard problems.

sehr 13y ago
Red Bulls are a nasty filthy habit... But I find a good espresso or americano to be useful for helping the mind stay alert. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cigar-smoking/AN01515 http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cigar-smoking/AN01515
- sgtpepper 13y ago
  I'm not sure the relevance of the link.. I never said cigars were healthier.. certainly there are risks involved. But there's a huge gulf between a pack a day habit and a couple day a month indulgence.

r0m4n0 13y ago

You don't hear about the benefits of smoking because of the obvious downsides... I will contribute to the benefits. "Although tobacco smoke decreases life expectancy and quality of life, it may reduce the risk of PD by a third when compared to non-smokers" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_disease http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_disease