10 ms·

While 'revenge porn' is a scumbag move, women should be thinking twice when taking pictures of themselves naked (men too). It's easy enough to send a picture t

by Mikeb85 13y ago

While 'revenge porn' is a scumbag move, women should be thinking twice when taking pictures of themselves naked (men too). It's easy enough to send a picture to the wrong person, to lose your phone, to have your SO open the picture in a compromising social situation (in a meeting, public places, etc...), in addition to the 'revenge' scenario. It's easier to simply not take the picture than to assume your ex won't be a douchebag after you break up.

imgabe 13y ago
It's also really easy to not upload a photo to a website. Blaming the victim is not the answer.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  It's not blaming the victim. It's simply stating that in complicated relationships where feelings are likely to get hurt and people do enact various forms of vengeance (women included), it's best to have a little vigilance. Expecting that no former lover will ever act out against you is unrealistic. The 'sexting' thing has gotten out of hand, to the point where kids are being put into jail for having photos of underage kids of the same age, celeb photos are leaked all the time, etc... It's better to avoid taking the photos than to try avoid the consequences later.
  - jacalata 13y ago
    It's also good to start amending laws so that obvious bad actions are punished and simple ones like 'two 14 year olds with pictures of each other' are not.
  - penguat 13y ago
    It's entirely possible to take a photo, delete it, and for it to still exist in a retrievable form. And if I want to take pictures of myself naked for my own information and entertainment on my own devices, that should be my prerogative. Someone having their email account compromised is not acting foolishly - they are not acting. The hacker is. They're a victim, and by that point have very little they can do about it. Acting foolishly is not the same as inviting crime or violent acts; the victims should not take any blame for that - although they may seek advice to prevent or mitigate similar attacks in the future.
- RokStdy 13y ago
  Why is suggestion caution the same thing as 'blaming the victim'? This is ridiculous. A very good solution to the "revenge porn" problem is for people to not cavalierly take naked pictures of themselves. So, I take a naked picture, share it, sharee shares again, <step>, <step>, revenge porn upload. I am appropriate in my action, and then the propriety drops as the chain goes on. But why is it unfair to say, don't take the pic in the first place and you can avoid what (may) come next.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    The problem is that it has nothing to do with this story. Congratulations, we've identified one step (out of many possible) that people can take to avoid revenge porn exposure. Now what? The answer isn't for the victims to be more vigilant; the answer is the public policy step that eliminates revenge porn sites.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
Quite a lot of the IsAnyoneUp pics were perfectly innocent headshots photoshopped onto porn bodies. IIRC, there was also a batch of post-surgery photos from a hacked medical database. To be completely safe from extortion-porn sites you'd need to never allow anyone to take a photo of you, in any context, ever. If people are getting attacked in the streets, warning everyone to stay indoors only redirects the problem. To really stop it, you need to find and arrest the perpetrators. Saying "it's your own fault for being out after dark" does not cut it.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  > Quite a lot of the IsAnyoneUp pics were perfectly innocent headshots photoshopped onto porn bodies. IIRC, there was also a batch of post-surgery photos from a hacked medical database. To be completely safe from extortion-porn sites you'd need to never allow anyone to take a photo of you, in any context, ever. Did I ever say anything condoning revenge porn? No, just a bit of social commentary and a suggestion that sexting has gotten out of hand. And at least in a photoshop scenario, you have deniability to protect your reputation. Extortion of course is a crime, and those who engage in it should be prosecuted. > If people are getting attacked in the streets, warning everyone to stay indoors only redirects the problem. To really stop it, you need to find and arrest the perpetrators. Saying "it's your own fault for being out after dark" does not cut it. I've spent time in countries where I've had to hide in the back of vehicles at police checkpoints, and where I couldn't let anyone know where I was staying, or go out after dark. Where people were shot dead in the streets by police 2 blocks away from the house at which I was staying during a blackout. While it's nice to say that you should be able to go anywhere you want at any time you want, when it's actually your life on the line you take the safe route...
- Crito 13y ago
  "If people are getting attacked in the streets, warning everyone to stay indoors only redirects the problem. To really stop it, you need to find and arrest the perpetrators." Both seem like good ideas, with the second of course being a higher priority, receiving more funding. Universities in cities frequently send texts and emails to their students warning them of recent muggings/shootings at such-and-such street. That doesn't mean those universities think that those messages are "the solution"; thinking that would be rather foolish. They also invest in more security, assist police investigations however they can, etc. In this case (http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/charlotte-laws-hunter-moore-erin-brockovich-revenge-porn http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/charlotte-laws-hunte...) the "Jack" person apparently gave the family some advice for securing their computers... that wasn't Jack saying that securing computers was the solution, or saying that the victims were at fault because they had insecure computers.
ZoFreX 13y ago
Naked pictures of me have leaked three times - once from hacking and twice from people spreading them. Why should I stop having my fun just because there are bullies out there? They can bite me, my ass, and the picture of my ass that's all over the internet.
jjcm 13y ago
I've taken the opposite, albeit extreme, approach to solving this problem. If I want to send a nude to my significant other, I'll post it publicly then send them a link. If I'm not comfortable with it being posted publicly, then I wont take the photo. If you go in with the expectation that the picture will eventually find its way onto the internet, then you wont be burned when a phone gets stolen, a cloud account gets leaked, or a significant other seeks revenge.
rosser 13y ago
And I suppose women should also think twice before putting on that slinky dress, or walking down that street at night, or going out with that guy? Victim-blaming is victim-blaming, regardless of context. The person who behaved wrongly in these circumstances is the person who uploaded the pic to a revenge porn site, not the person who took it, full fucking stop.
- alan_cx 13y ago
  Ok, but what about personal responsibility in the real world? There is what we all should have the right to be able to do or , ha, ha, keep private (NSA, etc), and what is prudent or wise. So, to exaggerate to illustrate.... It is a woman's right to walk down a dark ally in a dangerous neighborhood, dressed provocatively, how ever you define that, but, lets fact it, it isn't wise. So, in some contexts, yes a woman should think twice about what she is wearing, where she is going or that guy she might be meeting. And frankly, so should men. No so much the clothes, but there are places I would avoid at certain time, and yes, there a some women I'd want to avoid. As for "victim blaming", well, sorry, some victims are partly to blame, and should shoulder some of the responsibility. That does not excuse the offender, but it does have relevance. Both exist. And if you think that is wrong, then tell insurance companies and courts about limiting damage. "Was you car locked where you left it before it got stolen, sir?" Oh, fuck, fuck, fuck. Did those fucks make me any more correct?
  - rosser 13y ago
    If you want to talk about personal responsibility, then maybe let's start with, "Don't upload intimate pictures given to you in a trusted context to the internet for revenge purposes". Doing that is neither prudent nor wise, and is also an asshole thing to do. If we can agree on that, I bet everything else will be gravy. Your example about insurance companies is specious. They aren't trying to apportion blame; they're trying to find any grounds they can on which they can avoid paying out. I'm also pretty sure that leaving your car unlocked neither excuses its being stolen, nor mitigates the insurance carrier's obligation to make you whole, in the slightest.
  - AlexMax 13y ago
Dan_Nguyen 13y ago
It's not always women taking shots of themselves. Long before she met me, my fiancee had an extremely abusive bf. He'd drug her then take pictures and videos of her. When she wanted to leave he threatened to release those pictures to her family. When she finally did (after he assaulted her and her parents), he kept his word. I won't go into the profanities that accurately express my visceral emotions, but I think a law like this is long overdue. It's wrong that people who take pictures of themselves are being blackmailed to stay with those same pictures, but with the focus the media has on teenagers sexting inappropriately, I feel people forget there are others out there who had these materials taken against their will.

by Mikeb85 13y ago

imgabe 13y ago

It's also really easy to not upload a photo to a website. Blaming the victim is not the answer.

Mikeb85 13y ago
It's not blaming the victim. It's simply stating that in complicated relationships where feelings are likely to get hurt and people do enact various forms of vengeance (women included), it's best to have a little vigilance. Expecting that no former lover will ever act out against you is unrealistic. The 'sexting' thing has gotten out of hand, to the point where kids are being put into jail for having photos of underage kids of the same age, celeb photos are leaked all the time, etc... It's better to avoid taking the photos than to try avoid the consequences later.
- jacalata 13y ago
  It's also good to start amending laws so that obvious bad actions are punished and simple ones like 'two 14 year olds with pictures of each other' are not.
- penguat 13y ago
  It's entirely possible to take a photo, delete it, and for it to still exist in a retrievable form. And if I want to take pictures of myself naked for my own information and entertainment on my own devices, that should be my prerogative. Someone having their email account compromised is not acting foolishly - they are not acting. The hacker is. They're a victim, and by that point have very little they can do about it. Acting foolishly is not the same as inviting crime or violent acts; the victims should not take any blame for that - although they may seek advice to prevent or mitigate similar attacks in the future.
RokStdy 13y ago
Why is suggestion caution the same thing as 'blaming the victim'? This is ridiculous. A very good solution to the "revenge porn" problem is for people to not cavalierly take naked pictures of themselves. So, I take a naked picture, share it, sharee shares again, <step>, <step>, revenge porn upload. I am appropriate in my action, and then the propriety drops as the chain goes on. But why is it unfair to say, don't take the pic in the first place and you can avoid what (may) come next.
- tptacek 13y ago
  The problem is that it has nothing to do with this story. Congratulations, we've identified one step (out of many possible) that people can take to avoid revenge porn exposure. Now what? The answer isn't for the victims to be more vigilant; the answer is the public policy step that eliminates revenge porn sites.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

Quite a lot of the IsAnyoneUp pics were perfectly innocent headshots photoshopped onto porn bodies. IIRC, there was also a batch of post-surgery photos from a hacked medical database. To be completely safe from extortion-porn sites you'd need to never allow anyone to take a photo of you, in any context, ever. If people are getting attacked in the streets, warning everyone to stay indoors only redirects the problem. To really stop it, you need to find and arrest the perpetrators. Saying "it's your own fault for being out after dark" does not cut it.

Mikeb85 13y ago
> Quite a lot of the IsAnyoneUp pics were perfectly innocent headshots photoshopped onto porn bodies. IIRC, there was also a batch of post-surgery photos from a hacked medical database. To be completely safe from extortion-porn sites you'd need to never allow anyone to take a photo of you, in any context, ever. Did I ever say anything condoning revenge porn? No, just a bit of social commentary and a suggestion that sexting has gotten out of hand. And at least in a photoshop scenario, you have deniability to protect your reputation. Extortion of course is a crime, and those who engage in it should be prosecuted. > If people are getting attacked in the streets, warning everyone to stay indoors only redirects the problem. To really stop it, you need to find and arrest the perpetrators. Saying "it's your own fault for being out after dark" does not cut it. I've spent time in countries where I've had to hide in the back of vehicles at police checkpoints, and where I couldn't let anyone know where I was staying, or go out after dark. Where people were shot dead in the streets by police 2 blocks away from the house at which I was staying during a blackout. While it's nice to say that you should be able to go anywhere you want at any time you want, when it's actually your life on the line you take the safe route...
Crito 13y ago
"If people are getting attacked in the streets, warning everyone to stay indoors only redirects the problem. To really stop it, you need to find and arrest the perpetrators." Both seem like good ideas, with the second of course being a higher priority, receiving more funding. Universities in cities frequently send texts and emails to their students warning them of recent muggings/shootings at such-and-such street. That doesn't mean those universities think that those messages are "the solution"; thinking that would be rather foolish. They also invest in more security, assist police investigations however they can, etc. In this case (http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/charlotte-laws-hunter-moore-erin-brockovich-revenge-porn http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/charlotte-laws-hunte...) the "Jack" person apparently gave the family some advice for securing their computers... that wasn't Jack saying that securing computers was the solution, or saying that the victims were at fault because they had insecure computers.

ZoFreX 13y ago

Naked pictures of me have leaked three times - once from hacking and twice from people spreading them. Why should I stop having my fun just because there are bullies out there? They can bite me, my ass, and the picture of my ass that's all over the internet.

jjcm 13y ago

I've taken the opposite, albeit extreme, approach to solving this problem. If I want to send a nude to my significant other, I'll post it publicly then send them a link. If I'm not comfortable with it being posted publicly, then I wont take the photo. If you go in with the expectation that the picture will eventually find its way onto the internet, then you wont be burned when a phone gets stolen, a cloud account gets leaked, or a significant other seeks revenge.

rosser 13y ago

And I suppose women should also think twice before putting on that slinky dress, or walking down that street at night, or going out with that guy? Victim-blaming is victim-blaming, regardless of context. The person who behaved wrongly in these circumstances is the person who uploaded the pic to a revenge porn site, not the person who took it, full fucking stop.

alan_cx 13y ago
Ok, but what about personal responsibility in the real world? There is what we all should have the right to be able to do or , ha, ha, keep private (NSA, etc), and what is prudent or wise. So, to exaggerate to illustrate.... It is a woman's right to walk down a dark ally in a dangerous neighborhood, dressed provocatively, how ever you define that, but, lets fact it, it isn't wise. So, in some contexts, yes a woman should think twice about what she is wearing, where she is going or that guy she might be meeting. And frankly, so should men. No so much the clothes, but there are places I would avoid at certain time, and yes, there a some women I'd want to avoid. As for "victim blaming", well, sorry, some victims are partly to blame, and should shoulder some of the responsibility. That does not excuse the offender, but it does have relevance. Both exist. And if you think that is wrong, then tell insurance companies and courts about limiting damage. "Was you car locked where you left it before it got stolen, sir?" Oh, fuck, fuck, fuck. Did those fucks make me any more correct?
- rosser 13y ago
  If you want to talk about personal responsibility, then maybe let's start with, "Don't upload intimate pictures given to you in a trusted context to the internet for revenge purposes". Doing that is neither prudent nor wise, and is also an asshole thing to do. If we can agree on that, I bet everything else will be gravy. Your example about insurance companies is specious. They aren't trying to apportion blame; they're trying to find any grounds they can on which they can avoid paying out. I'm also pretty sure that leaving your car unlocked neither excuses its being stolen, nor mitigates the insurance carrier's obligation to make you whole, in the slightest.
- AlexMax 13y ago

Dan_Nguyen 13y ago

It's not always women taking shots of themselves. Long before she met me, my fiancee had an extremely abusive bf. He'd drug her then take pictures and videos of her. When she wanted to leave he threatened to release those pictures to her family. When she finally did (after he assaulted her and her parents), he kept his word. I won't go into the profanities that accurately express my visceral emotions, but I think a law like this is long overdue. It's wrong that people who take pictures of themselves are being blackmailed to stay with those same pictures, but with the focus the media has on teenagers sexting inappropriately, I feel people forget there are others out there who had these materials taken against their will.