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The cost of community mail delivery is not unknown. CMBs have existed for decades and the article states that the cost of home delivery is 130% more. So I would

The cost of community mail delivery is not unknown. CMBs have existed for decades and the article states that the cost of home delivery is 130% more. So I would submit that we do actually know the economics of it. The cost differential is about $762 million/year ($269-$117 * 5MM mailboxes). I actually worked part-time as a mail carrier doing home delivery once. It's not easy work, especially in the winter. A lot of people don't maintain their driveways and walkways in the winter and it can be hazardous especially when you're carrying 15 kg or more of mail. CMBs aren't high-security. But they're surely more secure than unlocked home mailboxes, especially in sleepy suburban neighbourhoods where no one is home for most of the day. I don't disagree that Canada Post could likely save money in other ways. But this seems to be a rational place to start.

corresation 13y ago
The cost of community mail delivery is not unknown. Imagine that UPS figured that delivering packages to your door is a real sucker's game, and they were in a monopoly industry where they could unilaterally make moves that competitors couldn't competitively undermine. So they want to build big, onerous, eyesore structures everywhere throughout a neighborhood. How much do you think it would cost them to do that? What do you think they will pay to rent the spaces, for instance? Canada Post pays nothing. The federal government just forced it on municipalities. To make this even more built on imaginary economics, Canada Post forces developers to pay for Canada Post to install the superboxes ($200 per address). One of those beautiful forms of downloading that of course end-users pay for, but somehow it saves the end user money. In any case, Canada Post does not publish numbers for CMBs. They publish numbers for group mailboxes (how credible and all inclusive they are we certainly don't know), which includes a massive array of group deliveries, of which superboxes are a subset. I actually worked part-time as a mail carrier doing home delivery once. It's not easy work, especially in the winter. I'm not saying it is. But what is happening here is a battle between the union and Canada Post, and both are a part of the problem. One of the reasons home delivery has so many imaginary expenses is that it is a secret known country wide that doing home delivery is a dream job because you are paid for the route, but most carriers can complete the route in a small fraction of a work day, though it is assessed, over long battled union rules, as a full work day. It's a battle of imaginary work and imaginary expenses, and in the end everyone loses.
- eigenvector 13y ago
  You raise a good point that Canada Post doesn't pay a true market cost for the real estate its CMBs sit on. But this is the nature of a quasi-public monopoly. But that's the price we pay for you to be able to send a letter from anywhere, to anywhere. You raise another good point that the cost of home delivery is inflated by the pay-by-distance union rules. But this issue is close to intractable. Given the political reality of this situation, do you think postal workers will give up these rules without a long, disruptive strike? Do you think the government wants to get within 10 miles of another postal strike?
  - giarc 13y ago
    One of the other big factors that hasn't been touched upon here is the cost of boxes vs the true cost of carriers. As we know, one of the largest cost's for these employees is the benefits and pension. So without numbers, just guessing, I would say that it would take a lot of boxes to cover the cost of salaries, benefits and pension for 8000 federal staff.
  - nasalgoat 13y ago
    | But that's the price we pay for you to be able to send a letter from anywhere, to anywhere. Except now, it's not anywhere, it's somewhat adjacent to anywhere.
    - cwp 13y ago
      That's just a matter of resolution. Canada Post never did deliver to say, the inbox on your desk, you always had to go to the mailbox to pick up your mail. What the GP means is that Canada Post serves all areas of the country. If you try to send a package to a rural area via UPS, they'll charge you courier rates and then just mail it for you.
- krrrh 13y ago
  In Germany where postal delivery services are all private, your UPS example actually has happened. http://www.dhl.de/de/paket/pakete-empfangen/packstation.html http://www.dhl.de/de/paket/pakete-empfangen/packstation.html The Deutsche Post DHL Packstations are tied into SMS notifications, and are an optional location you can have letters or parcels delivered to after you've registered for the service. They are located at places like supermarkets. I don't know for certain, but as a private company, I'm sure that DHL is covering the costs of the packstations and making it work from a business perspective. Other package delivery services like Hermes take different approaches, using convenience stores, bookshops, and other small businesses in the area as package drop-off/pickup centres. I always find it interesting how weirdly old-fashioned the discussion around mail service monopoly is in the US and Canada while 'socialist' Europe privatized the national postal systems years ago, and Deutsche Post fully lost their monopoly on letter delivery in 2008.

corresation 13y ago

The cost of community mail delivery is not unknown. Imagine that UPS figured that delivering packages to your door is a real sucker's game, and they were in a monopoly industry where they could unilaterally make moves that competitors couldn't competitively undermine. So they want to build big, onerous, eyesore structures everywhere throughout a neighborhood. How much do you think it would cost them to do that? What do you think they will pay to rent the spaces, for instance? Canada Post pays nothing. The federal government just forced it on municipalities. To make this even more built on imaginary economics, Canada Post forces developers to pay for Canada Post to install the superboxes ($200 per address). One of those beautiful forms of downloading that of course end-users pay for, but somehow it saves the end user money. In any case, Canada Post does not publish numbers for CMBs. They publish numbers for group mailboxes (how credible and all inclusive they are we certainly don't know), which includes a massive array of group deliveries, of which superboxes are a subset. I actually worked part-time as a mail carrier doing home delivery once. It's not easy work, especially in the winter. I'm not saying it is. But what is happening here is a battle between the union and Canada Post, and both are a part of the problem. One of the reasons home delivery has so many imaginary expenses is that it is a secret known country wide that doing home delivery is a dream job because you are paid for the route, but most carriers can complete the route in a small fraction of a work day, though it is assessed, over long battled union rules, as a full work day. It's a battle of imaginary work and imaginary expenses, and in the end everyone loses.

eigenvector 13y ago
You raise a good point that Canada Post doesn't pay a true market cost for the real estate its CMBs sit on. But this is the nature of a quasi-public monopoly. But that's the price we pay for you to be able to send a letter from anywhere, to anywhere. You raise another good point that the cost of home delivery is inflated by the pay-by-distance union rules. But this issue is close to intractable. Given the political reality of this situation, do you think postal workers will give up these rules without a long, disruptive strike? Do you think the government wants to get within 10 miles of another postal strike?
- giarc 13y ago
  One of the other big factors that hasn't been touched upon here is the cost of boxes vs the true cost of carriers. As we know, one of the largest cost's for these employees is the benefits and pension. So without numbers, just guessing, I would say that it would take a lot of boxes to cover the cost of salaries, benefits and pension for 8000 federal staff.
- nasalgoat 13y ago
  | But that's the price we pay for you to be able to send a letter from anywhere, to anywhere. Except now, it's not anywhere, it's somewhat adjacent to anywhere.
  - cwp 13y ago
    That's just a matter of resolution. Canada Post never did deliver to say, the inbox on your desk, you always had to go to the mailbox to pick up your mail. What the GP means is that Canada Post serves all areas of the country. If you try to send a package to a rural area via UPS, they'll charge you courier rates and then just mail it for you.
krrrh 13y ago
In Germany where postal delivery services are all private, your UPS example actually has happened. http://www.dhl.de/de/paket/pakete-empfangen/packstation.html http://www.dhl.de/de/paket/pakete-empfangen/packstation.html The Deutsche Post DHL Packstations are tied into SMS notifications, and are an optional location you can have letters or parcels delivered to after you've registered for the service. They are located at places like supermarkets. I don't know for certain, but as a private company, I'm sure that DHL is covering the costs of the packstations and making it work from a business perspective. Other package delivery services like Hermes take different approaches, using convenience stores, bookshops, and other small businesses in the area as package drop-off/pickup centres. I always find it interesting how weirdly old-fashioned the discussion around mail service monopoly is in the US and Canada while 'socialist' Europe privatized the national postal systems years ago, and Deutsche Post fully lost their monopoly on letter delivery in 2008.