4 ms·

Will Your ID Soon Be a Microchip Under Your Skin?

6 points by kkleiner 17y ago

sanswork 17y ago
I have a rfid chip in my wrist. One of my friends owns a chain a piercing shops and offered it to me for free so I got it done. I unfortunately haven't had time to build anything to make use of it though so it's been of little use to me except as a conversation starter but he has his set to unlock his apartment door. Range isn't huge a couple inches is pushing it so I'm not really worried about tracking me(I don't rub my wrist against every rfid receiver I come across). Besides with facial recognition available today if someone wants to track me around a city they would do a lot better using security cameras than trying to install rfid receivers everywhere.
- chaosmachine 17y ago
  I don't rub my wrist against every rfid receiver I come across Really? If I had an rfid chip, that's exactly what I'd be doing, just to see what happens.
  - sanswork 17y ago
    I did that a bit when I first got it but most of the time I forget its there now a days. It's like my tattoo when I first got it I noticed it every time I moved my arm. Now unless someone points it out I forget it's even there.
buugs 17y ago
I don't want a chip in me and I'm obviously not the only one
- sanswork 17y ago
  Do you have specific reasons for not wanting a chip if so would you share what they are?
- grinich 17y ago
  What if it could self-regulate drug delivery so you wouldn't have to take a pill every four hours? What if it could track and store fine-grain biometrics and thereby better help your doctor make treatment decisions? What if it could monitor your health, and contact your doctor if you're incapacitated? What if it could save your life in some other way?
  - jrockway 17y ago
    I am sure that's fine. People get pacemakers all the time without a second thought. What the OP doesn't want is a remotely readable chip that stores your identity.
  - buugs 17y ago
    All good and well but to go at your list in order: I am in a healthy state at this point in time I don't find taking pills or medication at specific intervals hard or even bothersome, I can even time it out with my cellphone reminders. As it goes with the healthy state I don't think this much matters if it could do that over say one of those annoying heart monitors a friend has to do every year I'm sure he would do it but that isn't really what we are discussing. This is already a lot of what ifs and this is something I most definitely would not want as it would also require that my exact position be available so emergency services could get to me. I'm all for life and everything but if I need a chip to save me I'm probably in the middle of nowhere away from any contact or emergency services that could get me in time. I am really fine with the current U.S. identification system as I had my identity stolen once by an illegal immigrant but it was easily solved with a birth certificate, social security cards and a credit lock. These devices factor in too much extra risk especially since it says its basically the same technology as the wireless poll paying system how do you know you won't walk by someone and your identity is just taken like that?
  - lurkinggrue 17y ago
    Those arguments remind me of the OnStar "MY BABY! SAVE MY BABY!" sort of arguments. Somehow I don't think an RFID chip can do many of the things you list there.
sirfrancisbacon 17y ago
Yeah, There's no way I'd let a microchip under my skin. "If you drop a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will of course frantically try to clamber out. But if you place it gently in a pot of tepid water and turn the heat on low, it will float there quite placidly. As the water gradually heats up, the frog will sink into a tranquil stupor, exactly like one of us in a hot bath, and before long, with a smile on its face, it will unresisting-ly allow itself to be boiled to death." (Also yes, for those of you pedantic enough I'm aware the story is not biologically accurate, but the metaphor remains valid)
TweedHeads 17y ago
Why not just a watch? Or a keychain, or a ring? Or an ID with rfid in your wallet? Why the intrusiveness?
- sanswork 17y ago
  I am far more likely to lose all of these things than the lower quarter of my arm.
  - dan_the_welder 17y ago
    At least until the Yakuza find out about it.
  - michaelneale 17y ago
    In nearly 35 years, I have not lost a watch, nor a wallet. I have nearly lost a finger a few times (don't turn on a drill while you are messing with the chuck). I have also lost a lot of skin from different parts of my body. For a chip to stay, would need to be somewhere inconvenient and deep. Certainly nowhere convenient that a reader could reach, unless its RFID style in which case I have other concerns...
jrockway 17y ago
Unless they can embed a cell-phone in my skin, I'd rather use my phone as an ID card / cash / credit card. For someone that wants to steal my identity, it is much easier to slice off my arm than to guess my password.
- sanswork 17y ago
  Would the threat of slicing off your arm not work equally well in getting you to give up your password? It certainly would for me.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Passwords are better in a number of ways. If the data is really important, you can always carry around a suicide pill, and know that if you die, your data dies. For more normal data, you have the opportunity to give up your data in tiers. If someone threatens to cut off your arm, give them a password that unlocks most of your data. You can have another password for the super-secret stuff. They are happy that they got your data, and you get to keep your arm (and super-secret data). Basically, you can have decoy passwords and accounts, but you can't have a decoy arm-with-RFID-chip.
lurkinggrue 17y ago
Good thing those chips are in no way spoofable from a distance. Oh wait... http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/02/video-hacker-war-drives-san-francisco-cloning-rfid-passports/ http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/02/video-hacker-war-drives-s...

6 points by kkleiner 17y ago

I have a rfid chip in my wrist. One of my friends owns a chain a piercing shops and offered it to me for free so I got it done. I unfortunately haven't had time to build anything to make use of it though so it's been of little use to me except as a conversation starter but he has his set to unlock his apartment door. Range isn't huge a couple inches is pushing it so I'm not really worried about tracking me(I don't rub my wrist against every rfid receiver I come across). Besides with facial recognition available today if someone wants to track me around a city they would do a lot better using security cameras than trying to install rfid receivers everywhere.

chaosmachine 17y ago
I don't rub my wrist against every rfid receiver I come across Really? If I had an rfid chip, that's exactly what I'd be doing, just to see what happens.
- sanswork 17y ago
  I did that a bit when I first got it but most of the time I forget its there now a days. It's like my tattoo when I first got it I noticed it every time I moved my arm. Now unless someone points it out I forget it's even there.

buugs 17y ago

I don't want a chip in me and I'm obviously not the only one

sanswork 17y ago
Do you have specific reasons for not wanting a chip if so would you share what they are?
grinich 17y ago
What if it could self-regulate drug delivery so you wouldn't have to take a pill every four hours? What if it could track and store fine-grain biometrics and thereby better help your doctor make treatment decisions? What if it could monitor your health, and contact your doctor if you're incapacitated? What if it could save your life in some other way?
- jrockway 17y ago
  I am sure that's fine. People get pacemakers all the time without a second thought. What the OP doesn't want is a remotely readable chip that stores your identity.
- buugs 17y ago
  All good and well but to go at your list in order: I am in a healthy state at this point in time I don't find taking pills or medication at specific intervals hard or even bothersome, I can even time it out with my cellphone reminders. As it goes with the healthy state I don't think this much matters if it could do that over say one of those annoying heart monitors a friend has to do every year I'm sure he would do it but that isn't really what we are discussing. This is already a lot of what ifs and this is something I most definitely would not want as it would also require that my exact position be available so emergency services could get to me. I'm all for life and everything but if I need a chip to save me I'm probably in the middle of nowhere away from any contact or emergency services that could get me in time. I am really fine with the current U.S. identification system as I had my identity stolen once by an illegal immigrant but it was easily solved with a birth certificate, social security cards and a credit lock. These devices factor in too much extra risk especially since it says its basically the same technology as the wireless poll paying system how do you know you won't walk by someone and your identity is just taken like that?
- lurkinggrue 17y ago
  Those arguments remind me of the OnStar "MY BABY! SAVE MY BABY!" sort of arguments. Somehow I don't think an RFID chip can do many of the things you list there.

sirfrancisbacon 17y ago

Yeah, There's no way I'd let a microchip under my skin. "If you drop a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will of course frantically try to clamber out. But if you place it gently in a pot of tepid water and turn the heat on low, it will float there quite placidly. As the water gradually heats up, the frog will sink into a tranquil stupor, exactly like one of us in a hot bath, and before long, with a smile on its face, it will unresisting-ly allow itself to be boiled to death." (Also yes, for those of you pedantic enough I'm aware the story is not biologically accurate, but the metaphor remains valid)

TweedHeads 17y ago

Why not just a watch? Or a keychain, or a ring? Or an ID with rfid in your wallet? Why the intrusiveness?

sanswork 17y ago
I am far more likely to lose all of these things than the lower quarter of my arm.
- dan_the_welder 17y ago
  At least until the Yakuza find out about it.
- michaelneale 17y ago
  In nearly 35 years, I have not lost a watch, nor a wallet. I have nearly lost a finger a few times (don't turn on a drill while you are messing with the chuck). I have also lost a lot of skin from different parts of my body. For a chip to stay, would need to be somewhere inconvenient and deep. Certainly nowhere convenient that a reader could reach, unless its RFID style in which case I have other concerns...

jrockway 17y ago

Unless they can embed a cell-phone in my skin, I'd rather use my phone as an ID card / cash / credit card. For someone that wants to steal my identity, it is much easier to slice off my arm than to guess my password.

sanswork 17y ago
Would the threat of slicing off your arm not work equally well in getting you to give up your password? It certainly would for me.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Passwords are better in a number of ways. If the data is really important, you can always carry around a suicide pill, and know that if you die, your data dies. For more normal data, you have the opportunity to give up your data in tiers. If someone threatens to cut off your arm, give them a password that unlocks most of your data. You can have another password for the super-secret stuff. They are happy that they got your data, and you get to keep your arm (and super-secret data). Basically, you can have decoy passwords and accounts, but you can't have a decoy arm-with-RFID-chip.

lurkinggrue 17y ago

Good thing those chips are in no way spoofable from a distance. Oh wait... http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/02/video-hacker-war-drives-san-francisco-cloning-rfid-passports/ http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/02/video-hacker-war-drives-s...