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Sure Snowden opened up a dialog when it comes to privacy etc. and that's a big deal for us because we live on the internet. This pope however is so transformat

by philtar 13y ago

Sure Snowden opened up a dialog when it comes to privacy etc. and that's a big deal for us because we live on the internet. This pope however is so transformational he could seriously do a lot to bring peace to the world. Potential wise, this guy trumps Snowden on every level. Take a moment to think about how powerful this guy really is. P.S I'm muslim.

kamaal 13y ago
>>Take a moment to think about how powerful this guy really is. Symbolically yes. But the world has moved on. Power these days comes in the form of a well developed economy, powerful armies, weapons, lobbies etc. Spiritual power by and large means nothing in the current world. Its all power, wealth and interests that move around them.
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  where i live abortion, in any form, is still illegal. this guy certainly does have power over many people. if you had a hugely successful campaigner in the usa that transformed the debate over abortion there, don't you think that would make news? this guy has the same potential, and that's just one small aspect, here in chile. and anyway, it is not about power. snowden has very little power, but we would all (well most of us) appreciate it if he had won.
- kohanz 13y ago
  Which of the above factors did Nelson Mandela possess?
  - sys_argv 13y ago
    Beyond the symbolic stature that he possessed, what 'power' did he have?
macspoofing 13y ago
I like this pope, but anything coming out of Vatican is essentially white-noise when it comes to national and international policies. No world leader actually cares. So how does he bring peace to the world?
- nicholassmith 13y ago
  Ground level action outside of a government. There's hundreds of millions of Catholics who listen, and if the Pope says 'let your voices be heard' they'll certainly be vocal. Plus peace doesn't just have to be an end to armed conflict, it could be helping restore peace to just one person through charitable acts.
dak1 13y ago
Agreed. When I saw the link on Hacker News, my gut reaction was that it was probably Snowden; however, I have to say I think the Pope was the far better choice (and I'm an atheist). He's the first Pope from what is often called the Global South, and really brings a different perspective and emphasis on cultural and economic issues that could have massive implications for the entire world (whether you're Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, atheist, etc) -- reaching far beyond the debate Snowden started.
- phryk 13y ago
  He's the first Pope from what is often called the Global South, and really brings a different perspective […] Oh, you mean like Obama really brought a different perspective as the first black President of the USA?
- yapcguy 13y ago
  Are awards being simply handed out for being the "first" at something? Also why do you think the Pope has any influence on a Muslim, Hindu or Jew? Do you think the local imam or rabbi is busy dissecting the Pope's latest press releases?
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > Also why do you think the Pope has any influence on a Muslim, Hindu or Jew? I'll let a Muslim activist provide one answer to that: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maha-elgenaidi/pope-francis-a-new-hope-f_b_3082527.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maha-elgenaidi/pope-francis-a-... > Do you think the local imam or rabbi is busy dissecting the Pope's latest press releases? Apparently, some of them do: http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20130413/muslims-say-pope-francis-offers-message-of-unity http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20130413/muslims-say-...
skwirl 13y ago
Exactly. If your life is lived online, especially in the tech community echo chamber, Snowden is going to mean a lot more to you than he does to most people. There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. I attended Catholic church growing up, and the pope has a lot of influence on Catholics. Many of these people have portraits of the pope (at the time it was John Paul II) in central areas of their homes. If you aren't part of that community, maybe it is hard to see how much of a difference the pope can make, although I think this pope has been hard to ignore, no matter who you are. When he speaks, hundreds of millions closely listen. And action happens. He may not really have changed the church on the topics of contraception and abortion, but that's also not what he is really out there talking about. The topic is humility, compassion, and charity. When is the last time these topics really had a globally influential champion?
- yapcguy 13y ago
  > The topic is humility, compassion, and charity. When is the last time these topics really had a globally influential champion? Er, since the last pope?! What makes this pope special from the others?
  - andrewcooke 13y ago
    he's significantly more liberal. that is the whole point, really. maybe you should read the article?
    - bowlofpetunias 13y ago
      "significantly more liberal" in this context means he's a slightly less hateful reactionary bigot. If the pope ran for election in the average western democracy he would be far right, next to the neo-nazi's and the anti-immigrant parties. But because it's the catholic church we even use the word "liberal" to describe his ideology.
      - andrewcooke 13y ago
        this simply doesn't make sense. i live in a catholic country with extreme right-wing parties. they are to the right of this pope. they are worried by him. also, try learning how the word "more" modifies an adjective. 1e99 is "more small" than 1e100. i despair at the level of comments here.
jackschultz 13y ago
As you said, potential wise, he does blow Snowden out of the water. But I can't see why you wouldn't wait until he fulfills that potential before naming him person of the year.
thrillgore 13y ago
>he could seriously do a lot COULD. Snowden HAS.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  Snowden and the Pope both have, but mostly -- in both cases -- in terms of provoking conversation and debate, with only fairly modest impacts in terms of substantive impact. OTOH, that's not really inconsistent with what the "Person of the Year" normally means.
r0h1n 13y ago
I'll take you up on your assertions. > "This pope however is so transformational he could seriously do a lot to bring peace to the world" Could, maybe. But what has he achieved in 2013? > "Potential wise, this guy trumps Snowden on every level." But the award isn't for "potential", is it? Even if it were, the potential comes with the job title, so it's not something he can lay claim to. > "Take a moment to think about how powerful this guy really is." I did, really. I still can't think of a reason he won. P.S. I don't think our religion is under discussion here, but FWIW I'm Hindu.
GnwbZHiU 13y ago
I agree that the Pope is powerful & very influential. But that's always true, or at least generally true, not specific to 2013.

by philtar 13y ago

kamaal 13y ago

>>Take a moment to think about how powerful this guy really is. Symbolically yes. But the world has moved on. Power these days comes in the form of a well developed economy, powerful armies, weapons, lobbies etc. Spiritual power by and large means nothing in the current world. Its all power, wealth and interests that move around them.

andrewcooke 13y ago
where i live abortion, in any form, is still illegal. this guy certainly does have power over many people. if you had a hugely successful campaigner in the usa that transformed the debate over abortion there, don't you think that would make news? this guy has the same potential, and that's just one small aspect, here in chile. and anyway, it is not about power. snowden has very little power, but we would all (well most of us) appreciate it if he had won.
kohanz 13y ago
Which of the above factors did Nelson Mandela possess?
- sys_argv 13y ago
  Beyond the symbolic stature that he possessed, what 'power' did he have?

macspoofing 13y ago

I like this pope, but anything coming out of Vatican is essentially white-noise when it comes to national and international policies. No world leader actually cares. So how does he bring peace to the world?

nicholassmith 13y ago
Ground level action outside of a government. There's hundreds of millions of Catholics who listen, and if the Pope says 'let your voices be heard' they'll certainly be vocal. Plus peace doesn't just have to be an end to armed conflict, it could be helping restore peace to just one person through charitable acts.

dak1 13y ago

Agreed. When I saw the link on Hacker News, my gut reaction was that it was probably Snowden; however, I have to say I think the Pope was the far better choice (and I'm an atheist). He's the first Pope from what is often called the Global South, and really brings a different perspective and emphasis on cultural and economic issues that could have massive implications for the entire world (whether you're Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, atheist, etc) -- reaching far beyond the debate Snowden started.

phryk 13y ago
He's the first Pope from what is often called the Global South, and really brings a different perspective […] Oh, you mean like Obama really brought a different perspective as the first black President of the USA?
yapcguy 13y ago
Are awards being simply handed out for being the "first" at something? Also why do you think the Pope has any influence on a Muslim, Hindu or Jew? Do you think the local imam or rabbi is busy dissecting the Pope's latest press releases?
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Also why do you think the Pope has any influence on a Muslim, Hindu or Jew? I'll let a Muslim activist provide one answer to that: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maha-elgenaidi/pope-francis-a-new-hope-f_b_3082527.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maha-elgenaidi/pope-francis-a-... > Do you think the local imam or rabbi is busy dissecting the Pope's latest press releases? Apparently, some of them do: http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20130413/muslims-say-pope-francis-offers-message-of-unity http://www.nhregister.com/general-news/20130413/muslims-say-...

skwirl 13y ago

Exactly. If your life is lived online, especially in the tech community echo chamber, Snowden is going to mean a lot more to you than he does to most people. There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. I attended Catholic church growing up, and the pope has a lot of influence on Catholics. Many of these people have portraits of the pope (at the time it was John Paul II) in central areas of their homes. If you aren't part of that community, maybe it is hard to see how much of a difference the pope can make, although I think this pope has been hard to ignore, no matter who you are. When he speaks, hundreds of millions closely listen. And action happens. He may not really have changed the church on the topics of contraception and abortion, but that's also not what he is really out there talking about. The topic is humility, compassion, and charity. When is the last time these topics really had a globally influential champion?

yapcguy 13y ago
> The topic is humility, compassion, and charity. When is the last time these topics really had a globally influential champion? Er, since the last pope?! What makes this pope special from the others?
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  he's significantly more liberal. that is the whole point, really. maybe you should read the article?
  - bowlofpetunias 13y ago
    "significantly more liberal" in this context means he's a slightly less hateful reactionary bigot. If the pope ran for election in the average western democracy he would be far right, next to the neo-nazi's and the anti-immigrant parties. But because it's the catholic church we even use the word "liberal" to describe his ideology.
    - andrewcooke 13y ago
      this simply doesn't make sense. i live in a catholic country with extreme right-wing parties. they are to the right of this pope. they are worried by him. also, try learning how the word "more" modifies an adjective. 1e99 is "more small" than 1e100. i despair at the level of comments here.

jackschultz 13y ago

As you said, potential wise, he does blow Snowden out of the water. But I can't see why you wouldn't wait until he fulfills that potential before naming him person of the year.

thrillgore 13y ago

>he could seriously do a lot COULD. Snowden HAS.

dragonwriter 13y ago
Snowden and the Pope both have, but mostly -- in both cases -- in terms of provoking conversation and debate, with only fairly modest impacts in terms of substantive impact. OTOH, that's not really inconsistent with what the "Person of the Year" normally means.

r0h1n 13y ago

I'll take you up on your assertions. > "This pope however is so transformational he could seriously do a lot to bring peace to the world" Could, maybe. But what has he achieved in 2013? > "Potential wise, this guy trumps Snowden on every level." But the award isn't for "potential", is it? Even if it were, the potential comes with the job title, so it's not something he can lay claim to. > "Take a moment to think about how powerful this guy really is." I did, really. I still can't think of a reason he won. P.S. I don't think our religion is under discussion here, but FWIW I'm Hindu.

GnwbZHiU 13y ago

I agree that the Pope is powerful & very influential. But that's always true, or at least generally true, not specific to 2013.