4 ms·

"She said ‘If I held it up to your neck, you wouldn’t know if it was real or not,’ and I said ‘really?’" Here's the crux of the matter - a two inch gun was tak

by timje1 13y ago

"She said ‘If I held it up to your neck, you wouldn’t know if it was real or not,’ and I said ‘really?’" Here's the crux of the matter - a two inch gun was taken because the TSA agent made a judgement call, and the TSA agent appears to lack judgement.

codex 13y ago
In other words, a potential highjacker would be a allowed to being a gun aboard if it is small enough and attached to a monkey? I dub this the "monkey loophole."
throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago
Actually... "The SwissMiniGun C1ST is a double-action .09 caliber six-shooter that's just over two inches (5.5 cm) long weighing 0.7 oz (19.8 g). [...] The first product of the SwissMiniGun company of La Chaux-de-Fonds, Switzerland, the C1ST is a miniature double-action (shoots each time you pull the trigger – no cocking of the gun required before shooting) six-shot revolver." http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-smallest-revolver-swissminigun/23582/ http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-smallest-revolver-swissminigun/...
- commandar 13y ago
  With kinetic energy levels at the muzzle of an astounding .71ft-lbs. http://www.swissminigun.ch/ammunition.html http://www.swissminigun.ch/ammunition.html
  - riskable 13y ago
    Enough "stopping power" to seriously injure or kill a fruit fly. Probably not enough to hurt a regular housefly though. For that you need something more powerful... Like a fly swatter.
  - dmak 13y ago
    Ft-lbs? It's so weird. I am so glad that I learned physics using the metric system.
  - JshWright 13y ago
    Ok... here's one that fires the .22LR cartridge (which is quite capable of inflicting a lethal injury) http://www.impactguns.com/naa-22-combo-1-18in-22lr-22mag-cylinders-22mscnaa-22msc-744253000232.aspx http://www.impactguns.com/naa-22-combo-1-18in-22lr-22mag-cyl...
owenmarshall 13y ago
>Here's the crux of the matter - a two inch gun was taken because the TSA agent made a judgement call, and the TSA agent appears to lack judgement. I don't think I can agree here. I read this as "A two inch gun was taken because the TSA agent followed procedure over common sense and logic". In all likelihood TSA agents are forbidden to deviate from the manual, which likely states that "replica guns are not allowed on airplanes." The solution will likely be that the manual is amended to provide allowable dimensions for replica firearms, and TSA supervisors will be presented with tape measures to check to see if the gun in question is greater than the allowable 2 5/8" in length, and god help you if you leave home without first measuring your sock monkey's gun, or your stuffed bear's blunderbuss.
- bullseye 13y ago
  > I read this as "A two inch gun was taken because the TSA agent followed procedure over common sense and logic". This defense fell apart the moment the TSA agent said "If I held it up to your neck, you wouldn’t know if it was real or not." In other words, she graduated from blindly following protocol to being an idiot.
  - JshWright 13y ago
    What she meant (I think it's safe to assume) was something along the lines of... While it's obvious to you and I standing here examining it that it's a prop gun, if it were being wielded in a threatening manner, it would be far less obvious, and it's reasonable to assume that it could be perceived as a real threat. Given the fact that there are several models of gun that small that are quite capable of killing you, that seems like a pretty reasonable argument to me.
    - bullseye 13y ago
      I think you give the agent too much credit, but perhaps that was the thought process. I'll concede that point. However, I still think it was a dumb argument. Note that the closest small gun you linked with any chance at being lethal was 4-5 inches long. A gun half that size, which someone would have to basically hold with their thumb and forefinger, cannot possibly be menacing in any circumstance unless you are a Smurf.
JshWright 13y ago
Really? http://www.impactguns.com/naa-22-combo-1-18in-22lr-22mag-cylinders-22mscnaa-22msc-744253000232.aspx http://www.impactguns.com/naa-22-combo-1-18in-22lr-22mag-cyl... That's a fully functional (and certainly lethal) gun, only slightly larger than the prop in question. I'm about as anti-TSA a person as you'll find. I think the entire organization is broken beyond repair should be dismantled. I'm paranoid enough that my reason for always opting out of mm-wave scanners is that I think the government could be building a highly accurate database of people's bodies. Even with my tinfoil-clad credentials... I think this was a pretty reasonable decision on the part of the TSA employee.
- delinka 13y ago
  You linked to a gun with a one-and-an-eight-inch barrel and claim that the whole gun is barely larger than the two-inch gun that was confiscated. Your link shoots a .22 calibre bullet. What's the monkey gun gonna shoot?
  - JshWright 13y ago
    The barrel length includes the majority of the revolver drum. The overall length of the weapon is a little over three inches. It's certainly in the same ballpark, size-wise, as the prop in the article. Which, in my opinion, makes the TSA employee's actions reasonable. Trust me... I think the TSA regulations are an absolute mess, and the vast majority are completely worthless. "You can't bring carry things that look an awful lot like guns onto planes" seems pretty reasonable to me though... If it's really that critical that you bring your sock puppet prop with you, stick it in your checked bag...
  - DanBC 13y ago
    My search history is now full of things like "tiny guns" "short guns" "small guns" "easy to conceal small guns" "mini weapons" etc. I shouldn't care, but I am gently worried about it. 'They' win, I guess.
adamio 13y ago
The TSA agent made a judgement call when she decided to not call the police.

by timje1 13y ago

codex 13y ago

In other words, a potential highjacker would be a allowed to being a gun aboard if it is small enough and attached to a monkey? I dub this the "monkey loophole."

throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago

Actually... "The SwissMiniGun C1ST is a double-action .09 caliber six-shooter that's just over two inches (5.5 cm) long weighing 0.7 oz (19.8 g). [...] The first product of the SwissMiniGun company of La Chaux-de-Fonds, Switzerland, the C1ST is a miniature double-action (shoots each time you pull the trigger – no cocking of the gun required before shooting) six-shot revolver." http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-smallest-revolver-swissminigun/23582/ http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-smallest-revolver-swissminigun/...

commandar 13y ago
With kinetic energy levels at the muzzle of an astounding .71ft-lbs. http://www.swissminigun.ch/ammunition.html http://www.swissminigun.ch/ammunition.html
- riskable 13y ago
  Enough "stopping power" to seriously injure or kill a fruit fly. Probably not enough to hurt a regular housefly though. For that you need something more powerful... Like a fly swatter.
- dmak 13y ago
  Ft-lbs? It's so weird. I am so glad that I learned physics using the metric system.
- JshWright 13y ago
  Ok... here's one that fires the .22LR cartridge (which is quite capable of inflicting a lethal injury) http://www.impactguns.com/naa-22-combo-1-18in-22lr-22mag-cylinders-22mscnaa-22msc-744253000232.aspx http://www.impactguns.com/naa-22-combo-1-18in-22lr-22mag-cyl...

owenmarshall 13y ago

>Here's the crux of the matter - a two inch gun was taken because the TSA agent made a judgement call, and the TSA agent appears to lack judgement. I don't think I can agree here. I read this as "A two inch gun was taken because the TSA agent followed procedure over common sense and logic". In all likelihood TSA agents are forbidden to deviate from the manual, which likely states that "replica guns are not allowed on airplanes." The solution will likely be that the manual is amended to provide allowable dimensions for replica firearms, and TSA supervisors will be presented with tape measures to check to see if the gun in question is greater than the allowable 2 5/8" in length, and god help you if you leave home without first measuring your sock monkey's gun, or your stuffed bear's blunderbuss.

bullseye 13y ago
> I read this as "A two inch gun was taken because the TSA agent followed procedure over common sense and logic". This defense fell apart the moment the TSA agent said "If I held it up to your neck, you wouldn’t know if it was real or not." In other words, she graduated from blindly following protocol to being an idiot.
- JshWright 13y ago
  What she meant (I think it's safe to assume) was something along the lines of... While it's obvious to you and I standing here examining it that it's a prop gun, if it were being wielded in a threatening manner, it would be far less obvious, and it's reasonable to assume that it could be perceived as a real threat. Given the fact that there are several models of gun that small that are quite capable of killing you, that seems like a pretty reasonable argument to me.
  - bullseye 13y ago
    I think you give the agent too much credit, but perhaps that was the thought process. I'll concede that point. However, I still think it was a dumb argument. Note that the closest small gun you linked with any chance at being lethal was 4-5 inches long. A gun half that size, which someone would have to basically hold with their thumb and forefinger, cannot possibly be menacing in any circumstance unless you are a Smurf.

JshWright 13y ago

Really? http://www.impactguns.com/naa-22-combo-1-18in-22lr-22mag-cylinders-22mscnaa-22msc-744253000232.aspx http://www.impactguns.com/naa-22-combo-1-18in-22lr-22mag-cyl... That's a fully functional (and certainly lethal) gun, only slightly larger than the prop in question. I'm about as anti-TSA a person as you'll find. I think the entire organization is broken beyond repair should be dismantled. I'm paranoid enough that my reason for always opting out of mm-wave scanners is that I think the government could be building a highly accurate database of people's bodies. Even with my tinfoil-clad credentials... I think this was a pretty reasonable decision on the part of the TSA employee.

delinka 13y ago
You linked to a gun with a one-and-an-eight-inch barrel and claim that the whole gun is barely larger than the two-inch gun that was confiscated. Your link shoots a .22 calibre bullet. What's the monkey gun gonna shoot?
- JshWright 13y ago
  The barrel length includes the majority of the revolver drum. The overall length of the weapon is a little over three inches. It's certainly in the same ballpark, size-wise, as the prop in the article. Which, in my opinion, makes the TSA employee's actions reasonable. Trust me... I think the TSA regulations are an absolute mess, and the vast majority are completely worthless. "You can't bring carry things that look an awful lot like guns onto planes" seems pretty reasonable to me though... If it's really that critical that you bring your sock puppet prop with you, stick it in your checked bag...
- DanBC 13y ago
  My search history is now full of things like "tiny guns" "short guns" "small guns" "easy to conceal small guns" "mini weapons" etc. I shouldn't care, but I am gently worried about it. 'They' win, I guess.

adamio 13y ago

The TSA agent made a judgement call when she decided to not call the police.