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I lived in Michigan and saw what free-flowing drugs will do to a town. I saw friends and family killed by drugs and alcohol - communities torn apart. You lega

by andyl 13y ago

I lived in Michigan and saw what free-flowing drugs will do to a town. I saw friends and family killed by drugs and alcohol - communities torn apart. You legalizers who cite theories and internet sources make me laugh. So passionate for your weed, as if its the most important thing there is.

nate_meurer 13y ago
So you must naturally support a return to alcohol prohibition, right? Perhaps you can provide us with your own "theories and internet references" that might change our minds? Like, I don't know, maybe some evidence that throwing people in prison for minor drug offenses (a necessary consequence of making drugs illegal) has helped those people, their children, and their communities in any way. Statistically speaking, that is. No wait I have a better idea! How about you convince me that the addicts in my own family would be better served by criminal records than by treatment. Now that's a real appeal to emotion!
- andyl 13y ago
  So passionate for your weed, as if its the most important thing there is. And yes I am in favor of more restrictions on both drugs and alcohol. I'm opposed to the notion that drugs and alcohol are consequence-free substances. In the wrong hands, they kill and they destroy lives.
  - suby 13y ago
    In the wrong hands, a vehicle can kill and destroy lives. I don't see how
  - Nursie 13y ago
    >> So passionate for your weed, as if its the most important thing there is. If it's so unimportant, why should we spend billions combatting it, and give people prison time and criminal records for using it? >> And yes I am in favor of more restrictions on both drugs and alcohol. I'm opposed to the notion that drugs and alcohol are consequence-free substances. In the wrong hands, they kill and they destroy lives. And prohibition does nothing to keep it out of those hands.
  - nate_meurer 13y ago
    It's interesting that you've singled out marijuana. You appear to be a bit obsessed with it yourself, clinging to your emotional appeals and repeating them like mantras. Why marijuana and not a really dangerous substance like alcohol, tobacco, or prescription painkillers? > "I'm opposed to the notion that drugs and alcohol are consequence-free substances." See this is what we call a strawman, and this is a particularly blatant example of one. Opponents of prohibition don't argue that drugs and alcohol are "consequence-free substances". They do argue that the consequences of prohibition are far worse than those of the drugs alone. If you are intent on making this personal, I can tell you that I haven't had a drink in over 12 years, and I remember the exact day of my last drink. If you can guess why I'll mail you a star sticker :). Oh and I don't smoke anything either. But although I personally can't be trusted with the stuff, I have the maturity to accept that other people can, and I'm not blind to the horrors of preemptively punishing everyone else in deference to my personal weaknesses. > "In the wrong hands, they kill and they destroy lives." Granted. But I don't understand how you get from there, to concluding that the solution is to criminalize everyone who uses a substance, regardless of whether or not they actually do something bad with it. Criminal records are pretty good at destroying lives too, and they do nothing to help actual addicts. Look, I realize you're probably immune to logic on this, and you seemed to acknowledge earlier that the evidence isn't on your side, so I'll spare you all that jazz and just issue a very basic rhetorical challenge: Tell me with a straight face that the drug addicts in my family (or anywhere else) are better off being treated like criminals, on top of or in lieu of whatever treatment they may receive. Then convince me that everyone else who isn't an addict should also be treated like criminals simply for possession, just so we can continue imprisoning the "wrong hands".
Crito 13y ago
You did not see anybody killed by marijuana. You may have seen people killed by crime, or untreated addiction to other drugs. You may have seen lives ruined by the legal system. I am sure you saw many of the problems the war on drugs has given us, but you did not see anybody killed by marijuana. You did not see a plant tear a community apart. What the fuck is an "internet source" anyway? What is next, disbelieving anything written in a book that has a black cover, instead of a white one?
- andyl 13y ago
  My experience is that weed, alcohol and hard drugs were all part of the mix - an inseparable combination. And no - I did not see anyone killed by crime, or lives ruined by the legal system, or some other theory of yours. Just people who drank and drugged until they were dead or caused terrible harm to their family. Dude you are so eager to assert what I know or have seen. Enjoy your pot.
  - Crito 13y ago
    Those people needed help, not convictions. Why are you so eager to imprison people who need treatment?
andyhmltn 13y ago
Nobody was killed by weed in your community or anywhere for that matter. Unless you're talking about gang related violence in relation to marijuana. In that case: That would be solved if it were legal.

by andyl 13y ago

nate_meurer 13y ago

So you must naturally support a return to alcohol prohibition, right? Perhaps you can provide us with your own "theories and internet references" that might change our minds? Like, I don't know, maybe some evidence that throwing people in prison for minor drug offenses (a necessary consequence of making drugs illegal) has helped those people, their children, and their communities in any way. Statistically speaking, that is. No wait I have a better idea! How about you convince me that the addicts in my own family would be better served by criminal records than by treatment. Now that's a real appeal to emotion!

andyl 13y ago
So passionate for your weed, as if its the most important thing there is. And yes I am in favor of more restrictions on both drugs and alcohol. I'm opposed to the notion that drugs and alcohol are consequence-free substances. In the wrong hands, they kill and they destroy lives.
- suby 13y ago
  In the wrong hands, a vehicle can kill and destroy lives. I don't see how
- Nursie 13y ago
  >> So passionate for your weed, as if its the most important thing there is. If it's so unimportant, why should we spend billions combatting it, and give people prison time and criminal records for using it? >> And yes I am in favor of more restrictions on both drugs and alcohol. I'm opposed to the notion that drugs and alcohol are consequence-free substances. In the wrong hands, they kill and they destroy lives. And prohibition does nothing to keep it out of those hands.
- nate_meurer 13y ago
  It's interesting that you've singled out marijuana. You appear to be a bit obsessed with it yourself, clinging to your emotional appeals and repeating them like mantras. Why marijuana and not a really dangerous substance like alcohol, tobacco, or prescription painkillers? > "I'm opposed to the notion that drugs and alcohol are consequence-free substances." See this is what we call a strawman, and this is a particularly blatant example of one. Opponents of prohibition don't argue that drugs and alcohol are "consequence-free substances". They do argue that the consequences of prohibition are far worse than those of the drugs alone. If you are intent on making this personal, I can tell you that I haven't had a drink in over 12 years, and I remember the exact day of my last drink. If you can guess why I'll mail you a star sticker :). Oh and I don't smoke anything either. But although I personally can't be trusted with the stuff, I have the maturity to accept that other people can, and I'm not blind to the horrors of preemptively punishing everyone else in deference to my personal weaknesses. > "In the wrong hands, they kill and they destroy lives." Granted. But I don't understand how you get from there, to concluding that the solution is to criminalize everyone who uses a substance, regardless of whether or not they actually do something bad with it. Criminal records are pretty good at destroying lives too, and they do nothing to help actual addicts. Look, I realize you're probably immune to logic on this, and you seemed to acknowledge earlier that the evidence isn't on your side, so I'll spare you all that jazz and just issue a very basic rhetorical challenge: Tell me with a straight face that the drug addicts in my family (or anywhere else) are better off being treated like criminals, on top of or in lieu of whatever treatment they may receive. Then convince me that everyone else who isn't an addict should also be treated like criminals simply for possession, just so we can continue imprisoning the "wrong hands".

Crito 13y ago

You did not see anybody killed by marijuana. You may have seen people killed by crime, or untreated addiction to other drugs. You may have seen lives ruined by the legal system. I am sure you saw many of the problems the war on drugs has given us, but you did not see anybody killed by marijuana. You did not see a plant tear a community apart. What the fuck is an "internet source" anyway? What is next, disbelieving anything written in a book that has a black cover, instead of a white one?

andyl 13y ago
My experience is that weed, alcohol and hard drugs were all part of the mix - an inseparable combination. And no - I did not see anyone killed by crime, or lives ruined by the legal system, or some other theory of yours. Just people who drank and drugged until they were dead or caused terrible harm to their family. Dude you are so eager to assert what I know or have seen. Enjoy your pot.
- Crito 13y ago
  Those people needed help, not convictions. Why are you so eager to imprison people who need treatment?

andyhmltn 13y ago

Nobody was killed by weed in your community or anywhere for that matter. Unless you're talking about gang related violence in relation to marijuana. In that case: That would be solved if it were legal.