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The fact that so many people mess themselves up on legal amphetamines and opiates is unfortunately why there is so much opposition to legalizing drugs. I don't

by steve19 13y ago

The fact that so many people mess themselves up on legal amphetamines and opiates is unfortunately why there is so much opposition to legalizing drugs. I don't care what you put in your body (legal or otherwise), its your body and your life and you are compelled to do so for reasons I might not understand, but if I found a loved one was taking a cocktail of amphetamines and opiates I would do everything in my power to see they got the help and support they needed to get off it. Legalizing amphetamines would trigger major societal problems. What percentage of HN would feel the need to consume it in order to compete at school, the office or the market. Nanny state? You make it sound so simple. Drugs are just chemicals. Why not say all chemicals should be legalized. What about RDX (a military-grade explosive)? Is the nanny state getting in the way of me having a good time on private property blowing stuff up? I can safely use military weapons, so why can't I purchase them privately?

Crito 13y ago
Ah yes, the good old "If you legalize drugs, next we'll be legalizing plastic explosives!" slippery-slope argume... wait what? That is one hell of a new one. You guys are getting more creative every day...
- kristiandupont 13y ago
  That wasn't GP's argument at all.
  - Crito 13y ago
    His argument devolved into incoherency. What little of it survived, has already been addressed at considerable length.
nate_meurer 13y ago
Your last sentence is one big bait-and-switch. Your simple possession of RDX is an entirely different matter from "blowing stuff up". I can blow stuff up just as easily with ammonium nitrate (used by the ton for fertilizing farmland) and diesel. Both of those are legal, but perhaps you'd rather they not be? You know, just in case... The drug war has not criminalized harmful behavior caused by drugs. That would make far too much sense. The drug war criminalizes the mere possession of drugs, regardless of any actual harmful behavior. Then the nanny state corrects your behavior by giving you a criminal record.
- vasilipupkin 13y ago
  If you make it easier and cheaper to purchase drugs by making it legal, it is natural to expect that more people would use and purchase them, on the margin. Is that what we want?
  - inDigiNeous 13y ago
    People are going to get wasted anyhow. Why not offer legal alternatives to alcohol (which just makes us stupid and dead) and tobacco. The only reason I see why cannabis is not legal yet is because it threatens the medical industry in a big way. Cannabis, although easily becomes an addiction, is also a big medicine for many things. When people start to realize this in big quantities, the medical companies are going to get worried, as their prescription drugs that may cause coma and death, will not be used so much anymore.
  - nate_meurer 13y ago
    Your question is bit of a non-sequitur, but any answer would have to depend on the drug in question. If we're talking about alcohol, then the rise in consumption is absolutely acceptable because 1.) those who abuse are now treated as addicts instead of imprisoned by default, and 2.) those who don't abuse it are now free from the horrors of capricious and arbitrary criminal persecution. Same goes for marijuana and tobacco (which is, in my meager experience, the most addictive drug of all). Now, if we're talking about meth or narcotics, then obviously any rise in consumption has to be taken very seriously, and then addressed by treating addicts medically as they should be, instead of sending them deeper underground by making them criminals.
felipe 13y ago
> Why not say all chemicals should be legalized. Very simple: Law enforcement protects individuals against the actions of other individuals, and not against themselves. Your loved one needs addiction treatment (i. e.: heathcare), and law enforcement will not solve his/her problem.
throwaway420420 13y ago
You are ignorant, have you ever been an addict? I doubt it, you've probably lived a safe life in your white middle-class bubble. If you think you could just convince a loved one to stop doing dope and crank with words, you're living in a fucking dream world. I speak from experience, having the disease of addiction. You are extremely naive, stop posting please.
- andyhmltn 13y ago
  The exact same thing can be said for alcohol. A substance which I can go and buy from the corner store.
- tomp 13y ago
  So throwing them in jail is your solution?
- icebraining 13y ago
  As someone who has lived with an (heroine) addict, I can tell you that decriminalization was essential in getting him to treatment, but he did stop consuming (after a few restarts, and after hurting a lot of people around him). The months he spent in jail didn't help at all.

by steve19 13y ago

Crito 13y ago

Ah yes, the good old "If you legalize drugs, next we'll be legalizing plastic explosives!" slippery-slope argume... wait what? That is one hell of a new one. You guys are getting more creative every day...

kristiandupont 13y ago
That wasn't GP's argument at all.
- Crito 13y ago
  His argument devolved into incoherency. What little of it survived, has already been addressed at considerable length.

nate_meurer 13y ago

Your last sentence is one big bait-and-switch. Your simple possession of RDX is an entirely different matter from "blowing stuff up". I can blow stuff up just as easily with ammonium nitrate (used by the ton for fertilizing farmland) and diesel. Both of those are legal, but perhaps you'd rather they not be? You know, just in case... The drug war has not criminalized harmful behavior caused by drugs. That would make far too much sense. The drug war criminalizes the mere possession of drugs, regardless of any actual harmful behavior. Then the nanny state corrects your behavior by giving you a criminal record.

vasilipupkin 13y ago
If you make it easier and cheaper to purchase drugs by making it legal, it is natural to expect that more people would use and purchase them, on the margin. Is that what we want?
- inDigiNeous 13y ago
  People are going to get wasted anyhow. Why not offer legal alternatives to alcohol (which just makes us stupid and dead) and tobacco. The only reason I see why cannabis is not legal yet is because it threatens the medical industry in a big way. Cannabis, although easily becomes an addiction, is also a big medicine for many things. When people start to realize this in big quantities, the medical companies are going to get worried, as their prescription drugs that may cause coma and death, will not be used so much anymore.
- nate_meurer 13y ago
  Your question is bit of a non-sequitur, but any answer would have to depend on the drug in question. If we're talking about alcohol, then the rise in consumption is absolutely acceptable because 1.) those who abuse are now treated as addicts instead of imprisoned by default, and 2.) those who don't abuse it are now free from the horrors of capricious and arbitrary criminal persecution. Same goes for marijuana and tobacco (which is, in my meager experience, the most addictive drug of all). Now, if we're talking about meth or narcotics, then obviously any rise in consumption has to be taken very seriously, and then addressed by treating addicts medically as they should be, instead of sending them deeper underground by making them criminals.

felipe 13y ago

> Why not say all chemicals should be legalized. Very simple: Law enforcement protects individuals against the actions of other individuals, and not against themselves. Your loved one needs addiction treatment (i. e.: heathcare), and law enforcement will not solve his/her problem.

throwaway420420 13y ago

You are ignorant, have you ever been an addict? I doubt it, you've probably lived a safe life in your white middle-class bubble. If you think you could just convince a loved one to stop doing dope and crank with words, you're living in a fucking dream world. I speak from experience, having the disease of addiction. You are extremely naive, stop posting please.

andyhmltn 13y ago
The exact same thing can be said for alcohol. A substance which I can go and buy from the corner store.
tomp 13y ago
So throwing them in jail is your solution?
icebraining 13y ago
As someone who has lived with an (heroine) addict, I can tell you that decriminalization was essential in getting him to treatment, but he did stop consuming (after a few restarts, and after hurting a lot of people around him). The months he spent in jail didn't help at all.