6 ms·

Obviously it's not that simple. We need massive reform in public education and affordability of healthcare (such as rehab facilities) before sane drug laws can

by thenmar 13y ago

Obviously it's not that simple. We need massive reform in public education and affordability of healthcare (such as rehab facilities) before sane drug laws can possibly be implemented.

pstuart 13y ago
Actually we don't. Those would be nice to have, but the current drug policy has failed horribly. The meth "epidemic" is a perfect illustration of this: it's illegal but it hasn't stopped those that want to use it from using it.
- thenmar 13y ago
  So your solution to the meth "epidemic" (scare quotes yours) is to... legalize meth?
  - Crito 13y ago
    That would solve most of the problems with meth. Quality control issues would be wiped out (and with them, many of the health and 'zoning' concerns). Stabilized price and availability would reduce many of the social concerns. The money formerly spent on pointless enforcement (lets face it, anybody who actually wants meth, has meth...) could instead be spent on actually helping people. With destigmatization, and eliminated potential consequences for not keeping a low profile, people who need help would be more inclined to seek help.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    Mine is. It's a medical problem, so allow it to be treated that way instead of throwing people in prison to rot over and over.
  - rosser 13y ago
    Drug abuse and addiction is a medical problem, not a criminal one. Let's try treating it like that, and see what happens.
  - pstuart 13y ago
    I've got legal speed in my medicine cabinet that my doctor prescribed to me for ADHD. I also have legal opiates that my doctor prescribed for pain. I don't want or need your approval for what I put in my body. I also have a brother dead from a heroin overdose. It's illegal and it didn't stop him. Sanctimonious nanny staters like you think you're protecting people but you're just supporting organized crime, death and ruined lives by pushing this into the shadows.
    - steve19 13y ago
      The fact that so many people mess themselves up on legal amphetamines and opiates is unfortunately why there is so much opposition to legalizing drugs. I don't care what you put in your body (legal or otherwise), its your body and your life and you are compelled to do so for reasons I might not understand, but if I found a loved one was taking a cocktail of amphetamines and opiates I would do everything in my power to see they got the help and support they needed to get off it. Legalizing amphetamines would trigger major societal problems. What percentage of HN would feel the need to consume it in order to compete at school, the office or the market. Nanny state? You make it sound so simple. Drugs are just chemicals. Why not say all chemicals should be legalized. What about RDX (a military-grade explosive)? Is the nanny state getting in the way of me having a good time on private property blowing stuff up? I can safely use military weapons, so why can't I purchase them privately?
      - Crito 13y ago
        Ah yes, the good old "If you legalize drugs, next we'll be legalizing plastic explosives!" slippery-slope argume... wait what? That is one hell of a new one. You guys are getting more creative every day...
        kristiandupont 13y ago
        That wasn't GP's argument at all.
        Crito 13y ago
  - MichaelGG 13y ago
    Methamphetamine is already legal, it's a Schedule II substance. Ask your doctor about Desoxyn. Compared to pot, which is Schedule I and actually "illegal", not just highly controlled.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    The current system is counterproductive in and of itself. It would be a positive step just to scrap it. Yes, rehab centres, education and healthcare initiatives would be great and I totally think that we should have those and fund them from taxes. But even if we don't, even if we say "fuck it, legalise everything and to hell with the rest" we'd be far better off as a society. Innocents would no longer die in drug-raids gone wrong. Taxes that fund the war could be cut, suppliers could compete on quality and price, removing major reasons addicts die and steal. Criminals would no longer have an easy source of income. Lives already ruined by addiction would no longer be further destroyed by criminal records and prison time. So yeah, legalise it. All of it. Now. We can talk about the other stuff later.
  - celticninja 13y ago
    legalise it, regulate it, tax it. that way you can afford to improve healthcare and education whlst simultaneously reducing harm by ensuring a cleaner product is made available to users.
  - berrypicker 13y ago
    Yes. Prohibition does two things: 1. Pushes drugs to a black market, which increases violence and cutting drugs with even more harmful chemicals and 2. Wastes money on a useless 'war'. Notice I didn't say it decreases use, because it doesn't (evidence: see Portugal case study, they decriminalised drugs and use went down). If that war money had been spent towards educating people how to use drugs safely, health care and rehabilitation, instead of putting people in jail for a victimless crime, well, you tell me if that's a good idea. The benefits of drug prohibition (if any) are far outweighed by the problems it causes.
  - andyhmltn 13y ago
    It will probably make it harder to get if it's regulated. Plus you can open clinics that allow people to get 'weened' off of the drug instead of throwing them in a jail cell and watching them rot away.
- smrtinsert 13y ago
  That's right, lets throw drugs at the under educated and already disadvantaged that will help social inequality in our country greatly. Why bother when mental illness has been linked to cannabis use in adolescents? It's so logical to just legalize everything and call it a day.
  - nate_meurer 13y ago
    Wow. > "lets throw drugs at the under educated and already disadvantaged that will help social inequality in our country greatly." They already have the drugs aplenty. But we do them one better by giving them criminal records on top of their addictions. Isn't that helpful! Plus, as an added bonus, prohibition ensures that the profits from those drugs go to actual criminal organizations. > " Why bother when mental illness has been linked to cannabis use in adolescents" First, unless I'm missing something, no one here has proposed legalizing drugs for children. Second, tobacco has been linked to a bible-full of hellish ailments for everybody. Perhaps you'd like to illegalize that and call it a day yourself?
meerita 13y ago
You think people will consume more, I think right now people is consuming with or without goverment approval. You don't need a law to consume, you just need a dealer, wich is really easy to find nowadays. By making a good law about this kind of drugs, you just taking out lot of problems and saving lots of $$$$$ in survelliance and law enforcement wich, clearly by long proved stats, they don't work at all.

by thenmar 13y ago

Obviously it's not that simple. We need massive reform in public education and affordability of healthcare (such as rehab facilities) before sane drug laws can possibly be implemented.

pstuart 13y ago

Actually we don't. Those would be nice to have, but the current drug policy has failed horribly. The meth "epidemic" is a perfect illustration of this: it's illegal but it hasn't stopped those that want to use it from using it.

thenmar 13y ago
So your solution to the meth "epidemic" (scare quotes yours) is to... legalize meth?
- Crito 13y ago
  That would solve most of the problems with meth. Quality control issues would be wiped out (and with them, many of the health and 'zoning' concerns). Stabilized price and availability would reduce many of the social concerns. The money formerly spent on pointless enforcement (lets face it, anybody who actually wants meth, has meth...) could instead be spent on actually helping people. With destigmatization, and eliminated potential consequences for not keeping a low profile, people who need help would be more inclined to seek help.
- rhizome 13y ago
  Mine is. It's a medical problem, so allow it to be treated that way instead of throwing people in prison to rot over and over.
- rosser 13y ago
  Drug abuse and addiction is a medical problem, not a criminal one. Let's try treating it like that, and see what happens.
- pstuart 13y ago
  I've got legal speed in my medicine cabinet that my doctor prescribed to me for ADHD. I also have legal opiates that my doctor prescribed for pain. I don't want or need your approval for what I put in my body. I also have a brother dead from a heroin overdose. It's illegal and it didn't stop him. Sanctimonious nanny staters like you think you're protecting people but you're just supporting organized crime, death and ruined lives by pushing this into the shadows.
  - steve19 13y ago
    The fact that so many people mess themselves up on legal amphetamines and opiates is unfortunately why there is so much opposition to legalizing drugs. I don't care what you put in your body (legal or otherwise), its your body and your life and you are compelled to do so for reasons I might not understand, but if I found a loved one was taking a cocktail of amphetamines and opiates I would do everything in my power to see they got the help and support they needed to get off it. Legalizing amphetamines would trigger major societal problems. What percentage of HN would feel the need to consume it in order to compete at school, the office or the market. Nanny state? You make it sound so simple. Drugs are just chemicals. Why not say all chemicals should be legalized. What about RDX (a military-grade explosive)? Is the nanny state getting in the way of me having a good time on private property blowing stuff up? I can safely use military weapons, so why can't I purchase them privately?
    - Crito 13y ago
      Ah yes, the good old "If you legalize drugs, next we'll be legalizing plastic explosives!" slippery-slope argume... wait what? That is one hell of a new one. You guys are getting more creative every day...
      - kristiandupont 13y ago
        That wasn't GP's argument at all.
        Crito 13y ago
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  Methamphetamine is already legal, it's a Schedule II substance. Ask your doctor about Desoxyn. Compared to pot, which is Schedule I and actually "illegal", not just highly controlled.
- Nursie 13y ago
  The current system is counterproductive in and of itself. It would be a positive step just to scrap it. Yes, rehab centres, education and healthcare initiatives would be great and I totally think that we should have those and fund them from taxes. But even if we don't, even if we say "fuck it, legalise everything and to hell with the rest" we'd be far better off as a society. Innocents would no longer die in drug-raids gone wrong. Taxes that fund the war could be cut, suppliers could compete on quality and price, removing major reasons addicts die and steal. Criminals would no longer have an easy source of income. Lives already ruined by addiction would no longer be further destroyed by criminal records and prison time. So yeah, legalise it. All of it. Now. We can talk about the other stuff later.
- celticninja 13y ago
  legalise it, regulate it, tax it. that way you can afford to improve healthcare and education whlst simultaneously reducing harm by ensuring a cleaner product is made available to users.
- berrypicker 13y ago
  Yes. Prohibition does two things: 1. Pushes drugs to a black market, which increases violence and cutting drugs with even more harmful chemicals and 2. Wastes money on a useless 'war'. Notice I didn't say it decreases use, because it doesn't (evidence: see Portugal case study, they decriminalised drugs and use went down). If that war money had been spent towards educating people how to use drugs safely, health care and rehabilitation, instead of putting people in jail for a victimless crime, well, you tell me if that's a good idea. The benefits of drug prohibition (if any) are far outweighed by the problems it causes.
- andyhmltn 13y ago
  It will probably make it harder to get if it's regulated. Plus you can open clinics that allow people to get 'weened' off of the drug instead of throwing them in a jail cell and watching them rot away.
smrtinsert 13y ago
That's right, lets throw drugs at the under educated and already disadvantaged that will help social inequality in our country greatly. Why bother when mental illness has been linked to cannabis use in adolescents? It's so logical to just legalize everything and call it a day.
- nate_meurer 13y ago
  Wow. > "lets throw drugs at the under educated and already disadvantaged that will help social inequality in our country greatly." They already have the drugs aplenty. But we do them one better by giving them criminal records on top of their addictions. Isn't that helpful! Plus, as an added bonus, prohibition ensures that the profits from those drugs go to actual criminal organizations. > " Why bother when mental illness has been linked to cannabis use in adolescents" First, unless I'm missing something, no one here has proposed legalizing drugs for children. Second, tobacco has been linked to a bible-full of hellish ailments for everybody. Perhaps you'd like to illegalize that and call it a day yourself?

meerita 13y ago

You think people will consume more, I think right now people is consuming with or without goverment approval. You don't need a law to consume, you just need a dealer, wich is really easy to find nowadays. By making a good law about this kind of drugs, you just taking out lot of problems and saving lots of $$$$$ in survelliance and law enforcement wich, clearly by long proved stats, they don't work at all.