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Until today, the only places in the world where marijuana was legal are two states in the US (Colorado and Washington)[0], and the entire country of North Korea

Until today, the only places in the world where marijuana was legal are two states in the US (Colorado and Washington)[0], and the entire country of North Korea[1]. Other jurisdictions have decriminalized marijuana, but most of us haven't seen the legal sale of recreational marijuana in our lifetimes (in the US, it was all-but-illegal since 1937, and truly illegal since 1970 - there were only 6 months in 1969 during which there were technically no laws prohibiting its sale). These are exciting times we live in. [0] Technically these haven't gone into effect yet, but I'm still counting them. [1] Surprising, but (as far as we can tell) true. Less surprising when you consider that exports of drugs that need to be engineered (like methamphetamine) are one of North Korea's biggest sources of foreign currency.

coldtea 13y ago
Well, it was also legal to buy marijuana in Amsterdam coffee shops. Don't know if there was any legal technicallity behind it, but it was (is) as legal as you can get.
- chimeracoder 13y ago
  > Don't know if there was any legal technicallity behind it, but it was (is) as legal as you can get. It was not legal. They practice gedoogbeleid ("tolerance"). They agree that it is illegal but prosecutors rarely enforce the law, because they prioritize other crimes instead. In that sense, marijuana has been "legal" in Oakland's Measure Z clubs for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam,_Oakland#Measure_Z_clubs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam,_Oakland#Measure_Z_... In both cases, sale to customers is tolerated, but sale to the coffeeshops (and growth/production) is illegal. Because wholesale growth and production are illegal, this setup lacks a key benefit of legalization: cutting off a major source of cash to organized crime syndicates and drug cartels. (This is the exact reason that the former president of Mexico, Vincente Fox, now supports legalization). Furthermore, in the Netherlands, coffeeshops have been dwindling in number in recent years, due to crackdowns, zoning regulations (oftentimes targeted at coffeeshops specifically), and other laws/policies that restrict the degree of "safe harbor" that such coffeshops have. (There was recently a proposal to ban sale to tourists; I believe it was due to go into effect recently, though it may have been delayed or reversed). As long as these businesses are forced to operate in a legal grey area (whether in the Netherlands or in the US), they cannot demonstrate the true potential of legalization.
  - toyg 13y ago
    >(There was recently a proposal to ban sale to tourists; I believe it was due to go into effect recently, though it may have been delayed or reversed) Apparently it's been banned in most cities, but not Amsterdam: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/9740463/Tourists-exempted-from-ban-on-smoking-cannabis-in-Amsterdam.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands... It's a very smart position, actually: the revenue from drug tourism in Amsterdam is way too high to compromise it, but resulting law-enforcement issues can be restricted to the city. Note that these issues would go away if the rest of Europe legalised cannabis: despite Amsterdam being a beautiful city in its own right, most Europeans go there to party and smoke ganja.
deleted 13y ago
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darkmighty 13y ago
What about coffee shops? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_coffee_shop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_coffee_shop)
- hbar 13y ago
  Not legal, just "officially unenforced".
- chimeracoder 13y ago
  No more legal than in Oakland, CA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam,_Oakland#Measure_Z_clubs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam,_Oakland#Measure_Z_... "Tolerated", yes (that's the official Dutch word). But definitively not legal.
whyenot 13y ago
It has been legal to grow and posses (but not sell) marijuana in Alaska since 1975 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_that_have_decriminalized_non-medical_cannabis_in_the_United_States#Alaska http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_that_have_decriminalized...
- rosser 13y ago
  Decriminalization != legalization. It's a subtle, and admittedly pretty technical, point but still a rather important one in this context.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
    - Crito 13y ago
      Legalization puts gangs and smugglers out of business, while decriminalization only has the potential to give them more customers. Legalization has much more to offer society than decriminalization.
  - whyenot 13y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is. It is legal to possess and grow marijuana in Alaska. An example of decriminalization is California where possession used to be a misdemeanor but is now an infraction and punishable by at most a $100 fine. There is nothing subtle or technical about it.
    - rosser 13y ago
      No, it's not legal. There's no penalty for possession of up to 4oz, or 25 plants, in a private residence, but that's most emphatically not the same as legal. That's just "fully" decriminalized, in that specific context. Consider, however: having a single gram on your person when not in your private residence — presumably even if that single gram came from plants that you grew in yourself, in your private residence — is still punishable by a 90-day sentence a/o a $2000 fine. [1] I can't conceive how that situation fits any definition of "legal". [1] http://norml.org/laws/item/alaska-penalties http://norml.org/laws/item/alaska-penalties
lake99 13y ago
Huh? Come to India. You won't have too much trouble finding government-run or government-authorized cannabis (bhang [1]) shops. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhang
- Crito 13y ago
  This (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_countr...) page says: "Used during observance of certain Hindu rituals. Government-owned shops in holy cities like Varanasi sell cannabis in the form of bhang. Despite the high prevalent usage, the law makes it illegal to possess any form of the psychoactive. However, this law is rarely enforced and treated as a low priority across India. Further, large tracts of cannabis grow unchecked in the wild in many parts of northern and southern India in many states such as West Bengal, Tripura, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, and Tamilnadu.[56] Many states such as West Bengal, Tripura, and the North East have their own laws allowing cannabis, locally known as ganja."
- mehwoot 13y ago
  The key is there are quite a few places where use is tolerated, but not actually legal.

coldtea 13y ago

Well, it was also legal to buy marijuana in Amsterdam coffee shops. Don't know if there was any legal technicallity behind it, but it was (is) as legal as you can get.

chimeracoder 13y ago
> Don't know if there was any legal technicallity behind it, but it was (is) as legal as you can get. It was not legal. They practice gedoogbeleid ("tolerance"). They agree that it is illegal but prosecutors rarely enforce the law, because they prioritize other crimes instead. In that sense, marijuana has been "legal" in Oakland's Measure Z clubs for a long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam,_Oakland#Measure_Z_clubs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam,_Oakland#Measure_Z_... In both cases, sale to customers is tolerated, but sale to the coffeeshops (and growth/production) is illegal. Because wholesale growth and production are illegal, this setup lacks a key benefit of legalization: cutting off a major source of cash to organized crime syndicates and drug cartels. (This is the exact reason that the former president of Mexico, Vincente Fox, now supports legalization). Furthermore, in the Netherlands, coffeeshops have been dwindling in number in recent years, due to crackdowns, zoning regulations (oftentimes targeted at coffeeshops specifically), and other laws/policies that restrict the degree of "safe harbor" that such coffeshops have. (There was recently a proposal to ban sale to tourists; I believe it was due to go into effect recently, though it may have been delayed or reversed). As long as these businesses are forced to operate in a legal grey area (whether in the Netherlands or in the US), they cannot demonstrate the true potential of legalization.
- toyg 13y ago
  >(There was recently a proposal to ban sale to tourists; I believe it was due to go into effect recently, though it may have been delayed or reversed) Apparently it's been banned in most cities, but not Amsterdam: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/9740463/Tourists-exempted-from-ban-on-smoking-cannabis-in-Amsterdam.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands... It's a very smart position, actually: the revenue from drug tourism in Amsterdam is way too high to compromise it, but resulting law-enforcement issues can be restricted to the city. Note that these issues would go away if the rest of Europe legalised cannabis: despite Amsterdam being a beautiful city in its own right, most Europeans go there to party and smoke ganja.

deleted 13y ago

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darkmighty 13y ago

What about coffee shops? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_coffee_shop http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_coffee_shop)

hbar 13y ago
Not legal, just "officially unenforced".
chimeracoder 13y ago
No more legal than in Oakland, CA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam,_Oakland#Measure_Z_clubs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaksterdam,_Oakland#Measure_Z_... "Tolerated", yes (that's the official Dutch word). But definitively not legal.

whyenot 13y ago

It has been legal to grow and posses (but not sell) marijuana in Alaska since 1975 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_that_have_decriminalized_non-medical_cannabis_in_the_United_States#Alaska http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_that_have_decriminalized...

rosser 13y ago
Decriminalization != legalization. It's a subtle, and admittedly pretty technical, point but still a rather important one in this context.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - Crito 13y ago
    Legalization puts gangs and smugglers out of business, while decriminalization only has the potential to give them more customers. Legalization has much more to offer society than decriminalization.
- whyenot 13y ago
  I'm not sure what your point is. It is legal to possess and grow marijuana in Alaska. An example of decriminalization is California where possession used to be a misdemeanor but is now an infraction and punishable by at most a $100 fine. There is nothing subtle or technical about it.
  - rosser 13y ago
    No, it's not legal. There's no penalty for possession of up to 4oz, or 25 plants, in a private residence, but that's most emphatically not the same as legal. That's just "fully" decriminalized, in that specific context. Consider, however: having a single gram on your person when not in your private residence — presumably even if that single gram came from plants that you grew in yourself, in your private residence — is still punishable by a 90-day sentence a/o a $2000 fine. [1] I can't conceive how that situation fits any definition of "legal". [1] http://norml.org/laws/item/alaska-penalties http://norml.org/laws/item/alaska-penalties

lake99 13y ago

Huh? Come to India. You won't have too much trouble finding government-run or government-authorized cannabis (bhang [1]) shops. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhang

Crito 13y ago
This (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_countr...) page says: "Used during observance of certain Hindu rituals. Government-owned shops in holy cities like Varanasi sell cannabis in the form of bhang. Despite the high prevalent usage, the law makes it illegal to possess any form of the psychoactive. However, this law is rarely enforced and treated as a low priority across India. Further, large tracts of cannabis grow unchecked in the wild in many parts of northern and southern India in many states such as West Bengal, Tripura, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, and Tamilnadu.[56] Many states such as West Bengal, Tripura, and the North East have their own laws allowing cannabis, locally known as ganja."
mehwoot 13y ago
The key is there are quite a few places where use is tolerated, but not actually legal.