5 ms·

If self-driving cars become a reality, it is interesting to think of what happens to all this space & infrastructure. If the model is that we don't own cars, b

If self-driving cars become a reality, it is interesting to think of what happens to all this space & infrastructure. If the model is that we don't own cars, but rather share them like taxis, then there is no need for parking: the car will just drop you and go to its next trip. If the model is that we own our self-driving cars, it may be that they can be parked at much greater distances (10+ miles) from where we spend time (in much denser structures than today). We can likely eliminate parking from inner cities, both garages and roadside parking. If we can design roads and grids for computers and not humans, perhaps we can make them much efficient by trading off simplicity. Could we have a complex system of mostly one-way streets? What interests me is that not just parking garages go away, but what today is a four-lane-width road (with two lanes dedicated to parking) may become a single-lane one-way street. The sidewalk - which used to be 20% of the space - is now 80% of the space. Looking around busy cities, and trying to imagine what it will look like post-self-driving car, is IMHO mind-blowing.

sliverstorm 13y ago
- Self-driving cars will still need to park at off-peak times. Unless they just keep driving in circles. - Having your car park 10 miles away from you after every trip adds some forty miles of travel per commute. That's forty miles of fuel and forty miles of maintenance, every day. - I'm also not thrilled about the prospect of already-dense cities shrinking streets to one lane. We call them concrete jungles now- can you imagine if all the roads were only 15 feet across? Goodbye, sky.
- justinsb 13y ago
  Definitely valid points! Personally, I hope that we end up with a shared-ownership model, and that the cars do park 10+ miles away if they are idle, but that this is amortized across a large number of commutes. I also hope that we use the liberated space for sidewalks and green spaces, not for more buildings. Small changes though (whether we own or share our cars, planning policies on urban parking & freed up lanes) will have a huge effect...
- GuiA 13y ago
  - Self-driving cars will still need to park at off-peak times. Unless they just keep driving in circles. "they can be parked at much greater distances (10+ miles) from where we spend time, in much denser structures than today" - Having your car park 10 miles away from you after every trip adds some forty miles of travel per commute. That's forty miles of fuel and forty miles of maintenance, every day. Only if we map 1 car to 1 person. Of course that'd be completely unoptimized - people wouldn't own car, but rather have a "subscription" where they can get a car dispatched at any time (à la Uber). Cars would only park 10 miles away at truly off peak hours; the rest of the time they'd go to service some other customer. - I'm also not thrilled about the prospect of already-dense cities shrinking streets to one lane. We call them concrete jungles now- can you imagine if all the roads were only 15 feet across? Goodbye, sky. As the previous poster said, the extra space would go to sidewalks. Outside patios, trees, grass, parks... the things we could do would be amazing. Some older European cities from pre-car eras are built like that, and it's wonderful.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Only if we map 1 car to 1 person Please read my parent. He said: If the model is that we own our self-driving cars it may be that they can be parked at much greater distances (10+ miles) That's what I was replying to. Some older European cities from pre-car eras are built like that, and it's wonderful. And a fair number of pre-automobile European cities are built with tiny streets. Hence, part of why micro-cars are so popular in Europe.
    - Xylakant 13y ago
      > And a fair number of pre-automobile European cities are built with tiny streets. Hence, part of why micro-cars are so popular in Europe. Fuel in europe costs about as much in euro per liter as it costs in USD/gallon. Well, that's a bit exaggerated but last week I paid ~ 1,50 EUR per liter, so a fuel efficient micro car does not only help you navigate narrow streets but also saves quite some money.
- mjmahone17 13y ago
  Shrink the street to gain curb space. Look at Broadway in NYC: you have all kinds of events and public markets going on down just about the entire length. Gaining curb space encourages people to walk, which in turn spurs local businesses, which encourages more people to walk (because there are all these awesome storefronts to shop at).
- rayiner 13y ago
  > - I'm also not thrilled about the prospect of already-dense cities shrinking streets to one lane. We call them concrete jungles now- can you imagine if all the roads were only 15 feet across? Goodbye, sky. Streets in downtown Philadelphia are effectively one lane in each direction (one lane is parking) and there is plenty of sky. You just need to manage the setback requirements. This is one of the densest neighborhoods in Philadelphia (~60k people per square mile): https://maps.google.com/maps?q=rittenhouse+square&hl=en&ll=39.950027,-75.169753&spn=0.011136,0.016115&sll=41.117935,-77.604698&sspn=5.569061,8.250732&hnear=Rittenhouse+Square,+Philadelphia,+Pennsylvania&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.950027,-75.169753&panoid=G1xNZIoubR61J6nnbLbS_g&cbp=12,104.62,,0,-15.34 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=rittenhouse+square&hl=en&ll=3....

sliverstorm 13y ago

- Self-driving cars will still need to park at off-peak times. Unless they just keep driving in circles. - Having your car park 10 miles away from you after every trip adds some forty miles of travel per commute. That's forty miles of fuel and forty miles of maintenance, every day. - I'm also not thrilled about the prospect of already-dense cities shrinking streets to one lane. We call them concrete jungles now- can you imagine if all the roads were only 15 feet across? Goodbye, sky.

justinsb 13y ago
Definitely valid points! Personally, I hope that we end up with a shared-ownership model, and that the cars do park 10+ miles away if they are idle, but that this is amortized across a large number of commutes. I also hope that we use the liberated space for sidewalks and green spaces, not for more buildings. Small changes though (whether we own or share our cars, planning policies on urban parking & freed up lanes) will have a huge effect...
GuiA 13y ago
- Self-driving cars will still need to park at off-peak times. Unless they just keep driving in circles. "they can be parked at much greater distances (10+ miles) from where we spend time, in much denser structures than today" - Having your car park 10 miles away from you after every trip adds some forty miles of travel per commute. That's forty miles of fuel and forty miles of maintenance, every day. Only if we map 1 car to 1 person. Of course that'd be completely unoptimized - people wouldn't own car, but rather have a "subscription" where they can get a car dispatched at any time (à la Uber). Cars would only park 10 miles away at truly off peak hours; the rest of the time they'd go to service some other customer. - I'm also not thrilled about the prospect of already-dense cities shrinking streets to one lane. We call them concrete jungles now- can you imagine if all the roads were only 15 feet across? Goodbye, sky. As the previous poster said, the extra space would go to sidewalks. Outside patios, trees, grass, parks... the things we could do would be amazing. Some older European cities from pre-car eras are built like that, and it's wonderful.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Only if we map 1 car to 1 person Please read my parent. He said: If the model is that we own our self-driving cars it may be that they can be parked at much greater distances (10+ miles) That's what I was replying to. Some older European cities from pre-car eras are built like that, and it's wonderful. And a fair number of pre-automobile European cities are built with tiny streets. Hence, part of why micro-cars are so popular in Europe.
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    > And a fair number of pre-automobile European cities are built with tiny streets. Hence, part of why micro-cars are so popular in Europe. Fuel in europe costs about as much in euro per liter as it costs in USD/gallon. Well, that's a bit exaggerated but last week I paid ~ 1,50 EUR per liter, so a fuel efficient micro car does not only help you navigate narrow streets but also saves quite some money.
mjmahone17 13y ago
Shrink the street to gain curb space. Look at Broadway in NYC: you have all kinds of events and public markets going on down just about the entire length. Gaining curb space encourages people to walk, which in turn spurs local businesses, which encourages more people to walk (because there are all these awesome storefronts to shop at).
rayiner 13y ago
> - I'm also not thrilled about the prospect of already-dense cities shrinking streets to one lane. We call them concrete jungles now- can you imagine if all the roads were only 15 feet across? Goodbye, sky. Streets in downtown Philadelphia are effectively one lane in each direction (one lane is parking) and there is plenty of sky. You just need to manage the setback requirements. This is one of the densest neighborhoods in Philadelphia (~60k people per square mile): https://maps.google.com/maps?q=rittenhouse+square&hl=en&ll=39.950027,-75.169753&spn=0.011136,0.016115&sll=41.117935,-77.604698&sspn=5.569061,8.250732&hnear=Rittenhouse+Square,+Philadelphia,+Pennsylvania&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.950027,-75.169753&panoid=G1xNZIoubR61J6nnbLbS_g&cbp=12,104.62,,0,-15.34 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=rittenhouse+square&hl=en&ll=3....