4 ms·

> Walking everywhere is nice as long as you know exactly where you want to live, you don't care about space, and can afford high rent. Taking this piece by pie

by enoch_r 13y ago

> Walking everywhere is nice as long as you know exactly where you want to live, you don't care about space, and can afford high rent. Taking this piece by piece: > can afford high rent From the article: "The average working adult in Atlanta’s suburbs now drives 44 miles a day." The IRS estimates that the average automobile cost about 55 cents per mile. At Atlantian levels of driving, that's almost $700 a month. That's a huge amount of rent money--but I think driving expenses are spread out, less visible, and less predictable, which leads people to underestimate them. > you don't care about space Yeah, this is a tougher one, although you can get a surprising amount of space in walkable and transit-able areas--for example, neighborhoods in Portland manage to combine great walkability with quite a bit of space and single-family homes. (It's worth mentioning that these residential streets are laid out in a grid pattern without many cul de sacs.) But yeah, commuting does allow us to live where land is cheap, so if you really need a lot of private space, you might need to live further out. > you know exactly where you want to live Well, it depends, doesn't it--the denser your area, the more options you'll have within walking distance. I very much doubt that I have more options within a 15-minute drive of my Orange County apartment than I would within a 15-minute drive in a typical urban center. On the other hand, without a car, my options in Orange County are extremely limited. A city like Boston, where other modes of transport preceded and then occasionally took precedence over the car, has great amenities (including Fortune 500 companies, startup communities, and global research universities). You just don't need to drive to them. Lastly, the article isn't about "walking everywhere." It's about being able to walk to a grocery store safely and conveniently. It's perfectly possible to walk to the corner store every few days, but hop in the car when you need to travel longer distances.

chc 13y ago
> The IRS estimates that the average automobile cost about 55 cents per mile. At Atlantian levels of driving, that's almost $700 a month. That doesn't really reflect my experience unless we're talking about really inefficient vehicles. I drive 45 miles a day. It costs me about $140 a month in gas.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  Do you think it is reasonable to ignore the other costs involved with owning a vehicle? I figure gas is ~1/3 or less of my overall costs (and I've had good luck with maintenance on an older car that I don't carry collision insurance on)
  - chc 13y ago
    In terms of costs that directly arise from miles driven, I can't think of any that add up to 200% of my gas expenses. Like, even if you're replacing a $200 part every single month (which should not be happening), that still doesn't work out to the numbers you're citing, and the numbers you're citing are still less than the numbers I was objecting to.
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      The IRS includes the amortization of the purchase price in their numbers.
- Kluny 13y ago
  You forgot to factor insurance, wear and tear on the car, and the cost of your own time that you spend in traffic - you are never getting those minutes back.
  - chc 13y ago
    This is about the marginal cost of commuting farther versus differences in rent, so fixed costs like insurance and intangibles like time do not factor into the equation. I agree that long commutes suck, but that's not the question here.
    - coldtea 13y ago
      Time is not a fixed cost in both cases. It exists in commuting but not in living closer.
tracker1 13y ago
It's worth considering that the 55 cents per mile average probably includes the cost of the car... if you're paying $500 a month for a car payment, and you need a car, even half as much, you still have to pay $500 for the payment... meaning if you spend half as much in gas, you're now at $600/month and paying >90 cents per mile, it's all relative. You only really save on the cost of a vehicle if you already own it (no payments) are lucky enough to have minimal maintenance costs, and/or can otherwise eliminate a vehicle payment. Gasoline is generally a fraction of the cost of owning/operating a car. That said, I tend to live pretty centrally located mainly to make my commute easier, if I could also have nearby (within a 5-7 minute walking distance) shopping etc, I'd really like it. The Phoenix area added light rail (my apartment is actually really close to a stop), but only a limited number of places I need to go are along a nearby route. Of course, I am pretty lazy... I've been parking farther away on purpose to get more walking in when I go places, including work.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  Most people with a car probably have at least one of car payments (because it is relatively new) or high maintenance costs (because it is relatively old). Driving a car less won't lower your payments. It will bring down maintenance costs, and can lower insurance.

by enoch_r 13y ago

chc 13y ago

> The IRS estimates that the average automobile cost about 55 cents per mile. At Atlantian levels of driving, that's almost $700 a month. That doesn't really reflect my experience unless we're talking about really inefficient vehicles. I drive 45 miles a day. It costs me about $140 a month in gas.

maxerickson 13y ago
Do you think it is reasonable to ignore the other costs involved with owning a vehicle? I figure gas is ~1/3 or less of my overall costs (and I've had good luck with maintenance on an older car that I don't carry collision insurance on)
- chc 13y ago
  In terms of costs that directly arise from miles driven, I can't think of any that add up to 200% of my gas expenses. Like, even if you're replacing a $200 part every single month (which should not be happening), that still doesn't work out to the numbers you're citing, and the numbers you're citing are still less than the numbers I was objecting to.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    The IRS includes the amortization of the purchase price in their numbers.
Kluny 13y ago
You forgot to factor insurance, wear and tear on the car, and the cost of your own time that you spend in traffic - you are never getting those minutes back.
- chc 13y ago
  This is about the marginal cost of commuting farther versus differences in rent, so fixed costs like insurance and intangibles like time do not factor into the equation. I agree that long commutes suck, but that's not the question here.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    Time is not a fixed cost in both cases. It exists in commuting but not in living closer.

tracker1 13y ago

It's worth considering that the 55 cents per mile average probably includes the cost of the car... if you're paying $500 a month for a car payment, and you need a car, even half as much, you still have to pay $500 for the payment... meaning if you spend half as much in gas, you're now at $600/month and paying >90 cents per mile, it's all relative. You only really save on the cost of a vehicle if you already own it (no payments) are lucky enough to have minimal maintenance costs, and/or can otherwise eliminate a vehicle payment. Gasoline is generally a fraction of the cost of owning/operating a car. That said, I tend to live pretty centrally located mainly to make my commute easier, if I could also have nearby (within a 5-7 minute walking distance) shopping etc, I'd really like it. The Phoenix area added light rail (my apartment is actually really close to a stop), but only a limited number of places I need to go are along a nearby route. Of course, I am pretty lazy... I've been parking farther away on purpose to get more walking in when I go places, including work.

dllthomas 13y ago
Most people with a car probably have at least one of car payments (because it is relatively new) or high maintenance costs (because it is relatively old). Driving a car less won't lower your payments. It will bring down maintenance costs, and can lower insurance.