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The article wasn't complaining about density but about structure; a fences-and-backyards suburb arranged on a grid or some other well-connected layout is much m

by bcoates 13y ago

The article wasn't complaining about density but about structure; a fences-and-backyards suburb arranged on a grid or some other well-connected layout is much more walkable than the same density suburb where all traffic must pass through a distant trunk to a major street. This makes it possible to actually connect useful mass transit to the suburb, which as the article explained, people will use if it's there.

ynniv 13y ago
That's the catchy title, but the article is really about density and transportation by car. There's a nice diagram describing how living in the suburbs reduces the number of places in walking distance, but in that diagram the house isn't even on a cul-de-sac. The thesis is actually that cul-de-sacs increase driving distance, because the places where they are used tend not to have any walkable destinations. This makes it possible to actually connect useful mass transit to the suburb, which as the article explained, people will use if it's there. The article says that people in midtown take MARTA to the grocery store... I can confidently tell you that this is incorrect at best. People in midtown drive their car to Whole Foods on the way back from their 15 minute reverse commute to work in another part of town. They will later walk to a local restaurant, bar, the park, or a local grocery or retail store, but it is rare that they will use MARTA except to get to the airport.
- wwweston 13y ago
  >The thesis is actually that cul-de-sacs increase driving distance, because the places where they are used tend not to have any walkable destinations. The correlation seems credible, but not the causitive. That is, you probably could build developments where cul-de-sacs are common for streets and where mixed use properties are connected by walking paths.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    Which sounds like a pretty nice environment, really!
- smileysteve 13y ago
  In Midtown, I walk to Publix (I don't Marta to the grocery and avoid it at after the 7pm switch. The most likely people to use Marta for groceries are the poor (and assumably carless) particularly from the South of the city (West End). And, I feel like my Publix is the only one located on the line. I'd add that I ride Marta to get to Lenox, Buckhead, and Braves/Falcons games most often. Friends that live near stations and ride Marta also ride to GT.
officemonkey 13y ago
Chicago nails this. The grid road network throughout the entire city means there is regular N-S and E-W bus service every half mile or so. And there are business districts in pretty much every neighborhood. This happens is areas of low housing density (single-family homes in Jefferson Park) and high density (high-rises in Lincoln Park.)
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- rayiner 13y ago
  Andersonville in Chicago is wonderful. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Andersonville,+Chicago,+IL&hl=en&ll=41.982527,-87.671714&spn=0.010799,0.016115&sll=41.117935,-77.604698&sspn=5.569061,8.250732&oq=andersonville,+chi&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.984239,-87.672938&panoid=pMUxjoe48b58ZvYBsOHi3A&cbp=12,308.71,,0,-3.48 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Andersonville,+Chicago,+IL&hl... That's just blocks away from this: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Andersonville,+Chicago,+IL&hl=en&ll=41.98401,-87.66886&spn=0.010798,0.016115&sll=41.117935,-77.604698&sspn=5.569061,8.250732&oq=andersonville,+chi&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.984852,-87.669043&panoid=iPHWsEEZSDSewNjcq0vi0A&cbp=12,210.08,,0,2.76 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Andersonville,+Chicago,+IL&hl...
  - officemonkey 13y ago
    I'm not far away in Uptown where the "walkability" index is 97. The point is these shots are not atypical, it's like this throughout Chicago. Even the "not so good areas" have the same fundamental layout.
- dankoss 13y ago
  Hmm, my experience has been that most places in Chicago are far quicker to drive than take public transit. And since many jobs have moved out of the city center to places like Naperville and Schaumburg, it is very difficult to find public transit options for a commute or reverse commute unless you happen to live within walking distance of Metra. If you can live and work entirely in the city limits, public transit might work.

by bcoates 13y ago

ynniv 13y ago

That's the catchy title, but the article is really about density and transportation by car. There's a nice diagram describing how living in the suburbs reduces the number of places in walking distance, but in that diagram the house isn't even on a cul-de-sac. The thesis is actually that cul-de-sacs increase driving distance, because the places where they are used tend not to have any walkable destinations. This makes it possible to actually connect useful mass transit to the suburb, which as the article explained, people will use if it's there. The article says that people in midtown take MARTA to the grocery store... I can confidently tell you that this is incorrect at best. People in midtown drive their car to Whole Foods on the way back from their 15 minute reverse commute to work in another part of town. They will later walk to a local restaurant, bar, the park, or a local grocery or retail store, but it is rare that they will use MARTA except to get to the airport.

wwweston 13y ago
>The thesis is actually that cul-de-sacs increase driving distance, because the places where they are used tend not to have any walkable destinations. The correlation seems credible, but not the causitive. That is, you probably could build developments where cul-de-sacs are common for streets and where mixed use properties are connected by walking paths.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  Which sounds like a pretty nice environment, really!
smileysteve 13y ago
In Midtown, I walk to Publix (I don't Marta to the grocery and avoid it at after the 7pm switch. The most likely people to use Marta for groceries are the poor (and assumably carless) particularly from the South of the city (West End). And, I feel like my Publix is the only one located on the line. I'd add that I ride Marta to get to Lenox, Buckhead, and Braves/Falcons games most often. Friends that live near stations and ride Marta also ride to GT.

officemonkey 13y ago

Chicago nails this. The grid road network throughout the entire city means there is regular N-S and E-W bus service every half mile or so. And there are business districts in pretty much every neighborhood. This happens is areas of low housing density (single-family homes in Jefferson Park) and high density (high-rises in Lincoln Park.)

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
rayiner 13y ago
Andersonville in Chicago is wonderful. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Andersonville,+Chicago,+IL&hl=en&ll=41.982527,-87.671714&spn=0.010799,0.016115&sll=41.117935,-77.604698&sspn=5.569061,8.250732&oq=andersonville,+chi&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.984239,-87.672938&panoid=pMUxjoe48b58ZvYBsOHi3A&cbp=12,308.71,,0,-3.48 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Andersonville,+Chicago,+IL&hl... That's just blocks away from this: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Andersonville,+Chicago,+IL&hl=en&ll=41.98401,-87.66886&spn=0.010798,0.016115&sll=41.117935,-77.604698&sspn=5.569061,8.250732&oq=andersonville,+chi&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.984852,-87.669043&panoid=iPHWsEEZSDSewNjcq0vi0A&cbp=12,210.08,,0,2.76 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Andersonville,+Chicago,+IL&hl...
- officemonkey 13y ago
  I'm not far away in Uptown where the "walkability" index is 97. The point is these shots are not atypical, it's like this throughout Chicago. Even the "not so good areas" have the same fundamental layout.
dankoss 13y ago
Hmm, my experience has been that most places in Chicago are far quicker to drive than take public transit. And since many jobs have moved out of the city center to places like Naperville and Schaumburg, it is very difficult to find public transit options for a commute or reverse commute unless you happen to live within walking distance of Metra. If you can live and work entirely in the city limits, public transit might work.