6 ms·

That's the interesting part: Elsevier does not have copyright of these papers! The authors do. However, by publishing with Elsevier, you grant them an exclusi

by 3JPLW 13y ago

That's the interesting part: Elsevier does not have copyright of these papers! The authors do. However, by publishing with Elsevier, you grant them an exclusive license for the right to publish and distribute the article.[1] Note that this even includes the author copy of the manuscript (albeit with slightly more lenient terms - the author may only post the copy to a personally operated website or their institution's website).[2] 1. http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-policies/author-agreement http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-polici... 2. http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-policies/article-posting-policy http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/open-access-polici...

res0nat0r 13y ago
Sounds like perfectly acceptable takedown notices then.
- 3JPLW 13y ago
  I'm not a lawyer, nor have I thoroughly read the DMCA; is the text broad enough to cover such licenses, over and above copyright?
  - jahewson 13y ago
    Yes, because this is a fairly standard copyright agreement. The DMCA is not adding anything new here, see my reply to darkarmani above. Copyright's rights are already divided up in such a manner by definition, it's not something that their lawyers have arbitrarily devised.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
Would love to see that contested in court. Have an author put it back up on the site (send then a letter of authorization) and then Elselvier will have to sue the author to get it taken down again. I wonder if Elselvier could survive the PR of suing 1,000 scientists for publishing their own papers on a user content contributed web site.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  I don't think it is going to do too well by just removing the content they posted. People think of their profile area on a social site as theirs, the law not withstanding, and pissing around with research scientists public profiles just sounds to me about as bright for a company that depends on academia as sticking your face in a bucket of angry bees.
gphilip 13y ago
Elsevier does not have copyright of these papers! The authors do. This is not true for the vast majority [1] of papers; for most articles published by Elsevier, the authors have to sign away their copyright first. What the parent says applies only to papers published "open access" by Elsevier. Both the links posted by the parent talk about Elsevier's policy for this type of publication. To publish an article as open access, authors [2] have to pay nontrivial sums to Elsevier [3]: For open access articles a fee is payable by the author, their institution or research funder to cover the costs associated with publication. Fees range from $500 - $5000 USD. Visit the individual journal homepages for specific pricing information. Elsevier uses the term "subscription articles" for "regular" articles (where one doesn't have to pay this huge fee). For these regular articles, the authors have to sign away their copyright as part of a "Journal Publishing Agreement" before Elsevier will publish. Here is some sample legalese from a recent such agreement [4]: I hereby assign to Elsevier Inc. the copyright in the manuscript identified above (government authors not electing to transfer agree to assign an exclusive publishing and distribution license) and any supplemental tables, illustrations or other information submitted therewith that are intended for publication as part of the manuscript (the "Article") in all forms and media (whether now known or hereafter developed), throughout the world, in all languages, for the full term of copyright, effective when and if the article is accepted for publication. This transfer includes the right to provide the Article in electronic and online forms and systems. I strongly suspect that the number of articles published "open access" by Elsevier is a minuscule fraction of their total publication, just because there are not many academics who have that kind of money to spend. [1] Admittedly, by my own reckoning; I couldn't find relevant publication numbers online. [2] Or their funding agency, e.g., the institute/department/university/country where the authors work. [3] http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/sponsored-articles http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/sponsored-articles [4] http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/wstein/www/home/liangzhb/web/papers/YAIMA4483.html http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/wstein/www/home/liangzh... EDIT: Formatting.
- darkarmani 13y ago
  > government authors not electing to transfer agree to assign an exclusive publishing and distribution license Can you issue a DMCA based on this type of clause? I wonder if they have issued DMCAs for documents falling under this?

by 3JPLW 13y ago

res0nat0r 13y ago

Sounds like perfectly acceptable takedown notices then.

3JPLW 13y ago
I'm not a lawyer, nor have I thoroughly read the DMCA; is the text broad enough to cover such licenses, over and above copyright?
- jahewson 13y ago
  Yes, because this is a fairly standard copyright agreement. The DMCA is not adding anything new here, see my reply to darkarmani above. Copyright's rights are already divided up in such a manner by definition, it's not something that their lawyers have arbitrarily devised.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

Would love to see that contested in court. Have an author put it back up on the site (send then a letter of authorization) and then Elselvier will have to sue the author to get it taken down again. I wonder if Elselvier could survive the PR of suing 1,000 scientists for publishing their own papers on a user content contributed web site.

moocowduckquack 13y ago
I don't think it is going to do too well by just removing the content they posted. People think of their profile area on a social site as theirs, the law not withstanding, and pissing around with research scientists public profiles just sounds to me about as bright for a company that depends on academia as sticking your face in a bucket of angry bees.

gphilip 13y ago

Elsevier does not have copyright of these papers! The authors do. This is not true for the vast majority [1] of papers; for most articles published by Elsevier, the authors have to sign away their copyright first. What the parent says applies only to papers published "open access" by Elsevier. Both the links posted by the parent talk about Elsevier's policy for this type of publication. To publish an article as open access, authors [2] have to pay nontrivial sums to Elsevier [3]: For open access articles a fee is payable by the author, their institution or research funder to cover the costs associated with publication. Fees range from $500 - $5000 USD. Visit the individual journal homepages for specific pricing information. Elsevier uses the term "subscription articles" for "regular" articles (where one doesn't have to pay this huge fee). For these regular articles, the authors have to sign away their copyright as part of a "Journal Publishing Agreement" before Elsevier will publish. Here is some sample legalese from a recent such agreement [4]: I hereby assign to Elsevier Inc. the copyright in the manuscript identified above (government authors not electing to transfer agree to assign an exclusive publishing and distribution license) and any supplemental tables, illustrations or other information submitted therewith that are intended for publication as part of the manuscript (the "Article") in all forms and media (whether now known or hereafter developed), throughout the world, in all languages, for the full term of copyright, effective when and if the article is accepted for publication. This transfer includes the right to provide the Article in electronic and online forms and systems. I strongly suspect that the number of articles published "open access" by Elsevier is a minuscule fraction of their total publication, just because there are not many academics who have that kind of money to spend. [1] Admittedly, by my own reckoning; I couldn't find relevant publication numbers online. [2] Or their funding agency, e.g., the institute/department/university/country where the authors work. [3] http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/sponsored-articles http://www.elsevier.com/about/open-access/sponsored-articles [4] http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/wstein/www/home/liangzhb/web/papers/YAIMA4483.html http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/wstein/www/home/liangzh... EDIT: Formatting.

darkarmani 13y ago
> government authors not electing to transfer agree to assign an exclusive publishing and distribution license Can you issue a DMCA based on this type of clause? I wonder if they have issued DMCAs for documents falling under this?