5 ms·

We Rent Movies, So Why Not College Textbooks?

31 points by robg 17y ago

vaksel 17y ago
How come schools don't provide the textbooks themselves? It worked in high school. I mean think about it: a) they can buy in bulk and get a huge discount. b) they only need to buy 1 set every 2-3 years. Saving money c) they can decide when to update their edition. And to pay for this, add a "Textbook surcharge" to each class pricing. This way the cost can be split between 6-8 students. So a regular $129 book, would be sold to university at $80, so each student would pay only $10 for the book. Hell they can probably even make more money by donating the books to some 3rd world schools. I mean, I can honestly say that I have not opened a SINGLE book since graduation. With Google there is absolutely no reason for students to keep books after the class is over.
apowell 17y ago
"The textbook business was wildly inefficient" My understanding is that the textbook business is designed to be inefficient (from a student's perspective - and very profitable from a publisher's perspective). The short lifespan and planned obsolescence of textbooks would make textbook rental a very difficult business without participation from publishers and colleges. Nevertheless, this could be a tremendously useful service for college students so I wish them the best.
- ubernostrum 17y ago
  "My understanding is that the textbook business is designed to be inefficient (from a student's perspective - and very profitable from a publisher's perspective)." I think this varies quite a bit according to the field of study and the level of coverage of the topic. To take one example: introductory calculus (which most undergraduates are required to take) textbooks can get away with this because students have little choice. They have to take the course, and so they have to get the book, and so the publisher essentially has a free hand, abetted by the academic bookstores which do quite well off the churn of new books. But this isn't universally applicable. My degree's in philosophy, for example; I still have all the books, and nearly all of them are still in print in the same edition. Most of those have been in their current editions at least as long as I've been alive (fun data point: the teaching guide for one course -- not the text, the teaching guide -- has been in the same edition since the 1970s). The only things which change frequently are topical anthologies, which do need to be updated more often to track recent developments. And anecdotally, I suspect that's a bit more common once you move out of the math/science area of most schools; the number of standard texts which simply aren't amenable to constant churn seems to decrease rapidly as you move over into the liberal arts.
phantom784 17y ago
From what I've seen, the prices on Chegg are a little more than what you'd end up spending if you bought all the books used that you could, and then re-sold them at the end of the semester. I'm seriously considering using Chegg next semester, however, for the convenience of not having to check various used book stores for the best prices, and more importantly, of not having to go around re-selling you books at the end of the semester (plus, the guaranteeing of saving that money, where sometimes you can't even resell a book because it won't be in use the next semester at all. This happened to me when I used a custom "Penn State" edition of my Economics book. Penn State upgraded to the new edition, and no bookstores wanted it because, of course, no other schools used the "Penn State" edition.)
eli 17y ago
What are you going to do with 50 copies of the 3rd edition when the 4th edition comes out?
- kailashbadu 17y ago
  1. New editions are not churned out every six months. 2. In most cases you can get away with not having the latest edition for a class . Schools don't change the syllabus just because a new edition of a text book has just rolled out.
  - kbrackbill 17y ago
    Based on my experience in school you're right about the first point (though they are still churned out very frequently) but incorrect about the second point (at least at the school I go to- I suspect it varies from school to school). Professors frequently require the latest edition of a book. Sometimes you can use the old book, but oftentimes it makes it very difficult to do the homework as the chapter/problem numbers get scrambled around in every edition and new problems can be added in the new editions.
    - mhb 17y ago
      Market for a diffbook?
      - kbrackbill 17y ago
        That's actually a pretty good idea. The difference between the newest edition and second newest edition of a book can be up to $100 sometimes. For example the my intro circuits book cost me $100 used (http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Circuits-8th-James-Nilsson/dp/0131989251/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246808055&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Circuits-8th-James-Nilsson/dp...) for the newest edition when I could have gotten the second newest one for $5 (http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Circuits-7th-James-Nilsson/dp/0131465929/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246808074&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Circuits-7th-James-Nilsson/dp...)
Oompa 17y ago
If you're smart you can break even, if not profit by buying textbooks used online, and then selling them again. I made a $300 profit last year on textbooks. I bought them cheap online, and then sold them to other students less than the price of the campus bookstore, online again, or if the price was right, back to the campus bookstore.
Tichy 17y ago
In Germany there used to be multiple copies of textbooks available at the university library. At least at the university I studied at. Since then the universities might have changed a lot, as they started adapting anglo-american structures (BA and MA studies). I studied in London for a while and overall I enjoyed university life there more. But the libraries were really bad compared to the German ones. In Germany they would also frequently respond to my wishes and buy specific books, and they would order books from other libraries for free. And they did so even when I wasn't a student anymore.
JulianMorrison 17y ago
The system that exists amounts to rent anyhow. One use and then it's landfill. The problem isn't renting, it's the price.
grellas 17y ago
Some years back, someone posted official-looking signs around the Stanford campus containing a "confession" from the bookstore admitting that it had been gouging students for years and offering them refunds. The bookstore had to hustle to get out its own signs telling students that this was prank and that no refunds would be issued. I normally don't condone pranks but this one was pretty clever and it did send them reeling for a few days anyway. Anyway, it is probably students' pent-up frustration in feeling trapped by this system that is the real "secret sauce" behind the success of this service. Lots of demand. All that was missing was an elegant solution.
ianbishop 17y ago
This already exists - it is called the reference section of the library. I have never purchased a single calculus textbook or one of those huge $150 dollar physics textbooks. Instead, I can just go sit at the engineering library for my two hours and answer the problem set. As far as studying goes, you can usually find most information you need for class online that comes from a reputable source. Just make sure to double check that you didn't miss anything by reading over the chapter the next time you take out the book.
- jlees 17y ago
  The problem happens when everyone does this and there aren't any copies in the library. I ended up just buying key textbooks because neither my college or department libraries sufficed.
  - ianbishop 17y ago
    The only time I have ever seen this happen is days leading up to the exam. Which, if you take good notes, shouldn't make a difference because you'll be able to just study from you notes. Plus your notes are usually a much more efficient study material than a textbook anyway.
    - lamnk 17y ago
      Maybe your university is small, i have a lot of classes with about 150 students. There are always not enough textbooks for that number of people. I find hard to believe a library is going to purchase more than 50 copies of one book title.
      - ianbishop 17y ago
        Which is why they are on reserve. Essentially reserve only allows you to have a textbook for 2 hours and there are usually conditions which do not allow you to reserve it more than x times per week etc. If there are 3 reserve texts for a 150 person class where likely 80% of the people in the class own the book/are not aware of the reference section, you can assume that you will be able to get a book reserved for a few hours at your leisure (or at least get on the waitlist).
jlees 17y ago
There is plenty of secret sauce to Chegg’s business, including logistics and software to determine the pricing and sourcing of books, as well as how many times a given book can be rented. Doesn't really sound all that defensible to me...
gabriel 17y ago
The state schools in Wisconsin have a rental system. It worked great. I didn't have to purchase a single text book. Some classes had several text books, which the book store would only rent the first or second primary book, but this wasn't too common. I do know that the publishers didn't like the university doing this much. Also, it hindered the professors a little bit because they were pressured to keep their textbooks to a minimum and to keep the same text book for as long as possible, even if there was a good justification to switch. So, the text books had a reputation for not being the best things available for us students.
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
I've used Chegg and I have to say they are going to be a winner/already are. Quick summary: -Fast Shipping -Great Prices -GREAT service -Easy to use app I file them under the "if I had money" I'd invest in them.
Tichy 17y ago
One other thing just occurred to me: the books from the courses I really enjoyed I wanted to keep. If the books are mostly for resale, maybe the subject is not important enough?
xsmasher 17y ago
Why is a "textbook" different than a regular book at all? What can you learn from it that you can't learn from of K&R, plus "Programming Pearls", and other books aimed at the target market?
spaghetti 17y ago
We do rent most textbooks. Buy a book for x, use it for the semester, sell it back for y (y <= x), and the rental cost per day is (x-y)/numDays. This doesn't work for the new editions problem of course.
zandorg 17y ago
There is the small problem of postage costs. Compare a movie in a sleeve to a huge book.
jhawk28 17y ago
If they wanted to lower textbook costs, they would not reorganize the chapters and re-release the books every 2 years.
paraschopra 17y ago
In India, college students usually get books from their seniors (who give them out for free, after the results).

31 points by robg 17y ago

How come schools don't provide the textbooks themselves? It worked in high school. I mean think about it: a) they can buy in bulk and get a huge discount. b) they only need to buy 1 set every 2-3 years. Saving money c) they can decide when to update their edition. And to pay for this, add a "Textbook surcharge" to each class pricing. This way the cost can be split between 6-8 students. So a regular $129 book, would be sold to university at $80, so each student would pay only $10 for the book. Hell they can probably even make more money by donating the books to some 3rd world schools. I mean, I can honestly say that I have not opened a SINGLE book since graduation. With Google there is absolutely no reason for students to keep books after the class is over.

apowell 17y ago

"The textbook business was wildly inefficient" My understanding is that the textbook business is designed to be inefficient (from a student's perspective - and very profitable from a publisher's perspective). The short lifespan and planned obsolescence of textbooks would make textbook rental a very difficult business without participation from publishers and colleges. Nevertheless, this could be a tremendously useful service for college students so I wish them the best.

ubernostrum 17y ago
"My understanding is that the textbook business is designed to be inefficient (from a student's perspective - and very profitable from a publisher's perspective)." I think this varies quite a bit according to the field of study and the level of coverage of the topic. To take one example: introductory calculus (which most undergraduates are required to take) textbooks can get away with this because students have little choice. They have to take the course, and so they have to get the book, and so the publisher essentially has a free hand, abetted by the academic bookstores which do quite well off the churn of new books. But this isn't universally applicable. My degree's in philosophy, for example; I still have all the books, and nearly all of them are still in print in the same edition. Most of those have been in their current editions at least as long as I've been alive (fun data point: the teaching guide for one course -- not the text, the teaching guide -- has been in the same edition since the 1970s). The only things which change frequently are topical anthologies, which do need to be updated more often to track recent developments. And anecdotally, I suspect that's a bit more common once you move out of the math/science area of most schools; the number of standard texts which simply aren't amenable to constant churn seems to decrease rapidly as you move over into the liberal arts.

phantom784 17y ago

From what I've seen, the prices on Chegg are a little more than what you'd end up spending if you bought all the books used that you could, and then re-sold them at the end of the semester. I'm seriously considering using Chegg next semester, however, for the convenience of not having to check various used book stores for the best prices, and more importantly, of not having to go around re-selling you books at the end of the semester (plus, the guaranteeing of saving that money, where sometimes you can't even resell a book because it won't be in use the next semester at all. This happened to me when I used a custom "Penn State" edition of my Economics book. Penn State upgraded to the new edition, and no bookstores wanted it because, of course, no other schools used the "Penn State" edition.)

eli 17y ago

What are you going to do with 50 copies of the 3rd edition when the 4th edition comes out?

kailashbadu 17y ago
1. New editions are not churned out every six months. 2. In most cases you can get away with not having the latest edition for a class . Schools don't change the syllabus just because a new edition of a text book has just rolled out.
- kbrackbill 17y ago
  Based on my experience in school you're right about the first point (though they are still churned out very frequently) but incorrect about the second point (at least at the school I go to- I suspect it varies from school to school). Professors frequently require the latest edition of a book. Sometimes you can use the old book, but oftentimes it makes it very difficult to do the homework as the chapter/problem numbers get scrambled around in every edition and new problems can be added in the new editions.
  - mhb 17y ago
    Market for a diffbook?
    - kbrackbill 17y ago
      That's actually a pretty good idea. The difference between the newest edition and second newest edition of a book can be up to $100 sometimes. For example the my intro circuits book cost me $100 used (http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Circuits-8th-James-Nilsson/dp/0131989251/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246808055&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Circuits-8th-James-Nilsson/dp...) for the newest edition when I could have gotten the second newest one for $5 (http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Circuits-7th-James-Nilsson/dp/0131465929/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246808074&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Circuits-7th-James-Nilsson/dp...)

Oompa 17y ago

If you're smart you can break even, if not profit by buying textbooks used online, and then selling them again. I made a $300 profit last year on textbooks. I bought them cheap online, and then sold them to other students less than the price of the campus bookstore, online again, or if the price was right, back to the campus bookstore.

Tichy 17y ago

In Germany there used to be multiple copies of textbooks available at the university library. At least at the university I studied at. Since then the universities might have changed a lot, as they started adapting anglo-american structures (BA and MA studies). I studied in London for a while and overall I enjoyed university life there more. But the libraries were really bad compared to the German ones. In Germany they would also frequently respond to my wishes and buy specific books, and they would order books from other libraries for free. And they did so even when I wasn't a student anymore.

JulianMorrison 17y ago

The system that exists amounts to rent anyhow. One use and then it's landfill. The problem isn't renting, it's the price.

grellas 17y ago

Some years back, someone posted official-looking signs around the Stanford campus containing a "confession" from the bookstore admitting that it had been gouging students for years and offering them refunds. The bookstore had to hustle to get out its own signs telling students that this was prank and that no refunds would be issued. I normally don't condone pranks but this one was pretty clever and it did send them reeling for a few days anyway. Anyway, it is probably students' pent-up frustration in feeling trapped by this system that is the real "secret sauce" behind the success of this service. Lots of demand. All that was missing was an elegant solution.

ianbishop 17y ago

This already exists - it is called the reference section of the library. I have never purchased a single calculus textbook or one of those huge $150 dollar physics textbooks. Instead, I can just go sit at the engineering library for my two hours and answer the problem set. As far as studying goes, you can usually find most information you need for class online that comes from a reputable source. Just make sure to double check that you didn't miss anything by reading over the chapter the next time you take out the book.

jlees 17y ago
The problem happens when everyone does this and there aren't any copies in the library. I ended up just buying key textbooks because neither my college or department libraries sufficed.
- ianbishop 17y ago
  The only time I have ever seen this happen is days leading up to the exam. Which, if you take good notes, shouldn't make a difference because you'll be able to just study from you notes. Plus your notes are usually a much more efficient study material than a textbook anyway.
  - lamnk 17y ago
    Maybe your university is small, i have a lot of classes with about 150 students. There are always not enough textbooks for that number of people. I find hard to believe a library is going to purchase more than 50 copies of one book title.
    - ianbishop 17y ago
      Which is why they are on reserve. Essentially reserve only allows you to have a textbook for 2 hours and there are usually conditions which do not allow you to reserve it more than x times per week etc. If there are 3 reserve texts for a 150 person class where likely 80% of the people in the class own the book/are not aware of the reference section, you can assume that you will be able to get a book reserved for a few hours at your leisure (or at least get on the waitlist).

jlees 17y ago

There is plenty of secret sauce to Chegg’s business, including logistics and software to determine the pricing and sourcing of books, as well as how many times a given book can be rented. Doesn't really sound all that defensible to me...

gabriel 17y ago

The state schools in Wisconsin have a rental system. It worked great. I didn't have to purchase a single text book. Some classes had several text books, which the book store would only rent the first or second primary book, but this wasn't too common. I do know that the publishers didn't like the university doing this much. Also, it hindered the professors a little bit because they were pressured to keep their textbooks to a minimum and to keep the same text book for as long as possible, even if there was a good justification to switch. So, the text books had a reputation for not being the best things available for us students.

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

I've used Chegg and I have to say they are going to be a winner/already are. Quick summary: -Fast Shipping -Great Prices -GREAT service -Easy to use app I file them under the "if I had money" I'd invest in them.

Tichy 17y ago

One other thing just occurred to me: the books from the courses I really enjoyed I wanted to keep. If the books are mostly for resale, maybe the subject is not important enough?

xsmasher 17y ago

Why is a "textbook" different than a regular book at all? What can you learn from it that you can't learn from of K&R, plus "Programming Pearls", and other books aimed at the target market?

spaghetti 17y ago

We do rent most textbooks. Buy a book for x, use it for the semester, sell it back for y (y <= x), and the rental cost per day is (x-y)/numDays. This doesn't work for the new editions problem of course.

zandorg 17y ago

There is the small problem of postage costs. Compare a movie in a sleeve to a huge book.

jhawk28 17y ago

If they wanted to lower textbook costs, they would not reorganize the chapters and re-release the books every 2 years.

paraschopra 17y ago

In India, college students usually get books from their seniors (who give them out for free, after the results).