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Not entirely sure how you deem this poll to be US-centric. It's the result of a discussion on immigration relating to innovation in the US, sure, but I underst

by vickrum 17y ago

Not entirely sure how you deem this poll to be US-centric. It's the result of a discussion on immigration relating to innovation in the US, sure, but I understand the poll to be more of a look at whether that applies to the Hacker News community. My point is, vote! It's an interesting poll.

RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago
My point is that to me, and perhaps to many who don't live in the USA, the entire question feels USA-centric. There's a significant difference between being a first generation Bulgaria->Sweden immigrant and being a first generation Germany->Netherlands immigrant. It's just fundamentally different, and I think a poll like this demonstrates a non-understanding of that. The thinking in the USA seems to be that either you're an immigrant or you're not, with no distinction between the variation of cultures. To a western European this kind of thinking seems very parochial. The very idea of asking this kind of question makes it seems USA-centric, because the USA has such a strong self-identification as the land of opportunity for immigrants. The discussions about H1-B visas indicates the schizoid nature of that identity. I've heard it said that the difference between Britain and the USA is that the British think 100 miles is a long way, while Americans think 100 years is a long time. Again, all of this is my impression, but you did ask.
- idlewords 17y ago
  There are a number of countries besides the US that self-identify as "built by immigrants". Canada, Israel, and Australia come to mind. And in the United States too, there is a world of difference between being a Mexican, Dutch or Canadian immigrant. Like many big life changes, immigration is lived differently by everyone, but everyone will tend to look at the broad phenomenon through the lens of their own experience. Spoken as an Eastern European who moved to the states in childhood...
  - jballanc 17y ago
    From what my wife tells me, you should add Turkey to that list too.
- mechanical_fish 17y ago
  The thinking in the USA seems to be that either you're an immigrant or you're not, with no distinction between the variation of cultures. That's the ideal in some of the USA, but it's by no means the historical norm. The traditional thinking in the USA has always been that either you're an immigrant from Awesome Culture X or Y, and therefore the salt of the earth, or you're from Despised Culture Z or Q, and therefore a dangerous foreign influence that needs to be controlled. The darkly amusing feature of our culture is the routine reshuffling of the categories.
- scott_s 17y ago
  It is USA centric. But the value of the exercise, to me, is to appreciate how close to part of my family's immigration I am. I am a second generation immigrant. This is important to keep in mind when we talk about American immigration policies.

by vickrum 17y ago

RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago

My point is that to me, and perhaps to many who don't live in the USA, the entire question feels USA-centric. There's a significant difference between being a first generation Bulgaria->Sweden immigrant and being a first generation Germany->Netherlands immigrant. It's just fundamentally different, and I think a poll like this demonstrates a non-understanding of that. The thinking in the USA seems to be that either you're an immigrant or you're not, with no distinction between the variation of cultures. To a western European this kind of thinking seems very parochial. The very idea of asking this kind of question makes it seems USA-centric, because the USA has such a strong self-identification as the land of opportunity for immigrants. The discussions about H1-B visas indicates the schizoid nature of that identity. I've heard it said that the difference between Britain and the USA is that the British think 100 miles is a long way, while Americans think 100 years is a long time. Again, all of this is my impression, but you did ask.

idlewords 17y ago
There are a number of countries besides the US that self-identify as "built by immigrants". Canada, Israel, and Australia come to mind. And in the United States too, there is a world of difference between being a Mexican, Dutch or Canadian immigrant. Like many big life changes, immigration is lived differently by everyone, but everyone will tend to look at the broad phenomenon through the lens of their own experience. Spoken as an Eastern European who moved to the states in childhood...
- jballanc 17y ago
  From what my wife tells me, you should add Turkey to that list too.
mechanical_fish 17y ago
The thinking in the USA seems to be that either you're an immigrant or you're not, with no distinction between the variation of cultures. That's the ideal in some of the USA, but it's by no means the historical norm. The traditional thinking in the USA has always been that either you're an immigrant from Awesome Culture X or Y, and therefore the salt of the earth, or you're from Despised Culture Z or Q, and therefore a dangerous foreign influence that needs to be controlled. The darkly amusing feature of our culture is the routine reshuffling of the categories.
scott_s 17y ago
It is USA centric. But the value of the exercise, to me, is to appreciate how close to part of my family's immigration I am. I am a second generation immigrant. This is important to keep in mind when we talk about American immigration policies.