7 ms·
Microsoft FAT patent loss endangers its Android revenue
- gonvaled 13y agoDoes this mean MS must pay back royalties? To whom?
- delinka 13y agoNot automatically, no. And I'd bet that the contracts (i.e. 'licenses') that they've agreed to thus far have a clause that prevents the licensee from seeking a refund should the patents ever be found invalid.
- talmand 13y agoNot only that, I'm willing to bet they would have to continue paying the royalties unless they can get out of the license contract by some legal means.
- tanzam75 13y ago> And I'd bet that the contracts (i.e. 'licenses') that they've agreed to thus far have a clause that prevents the licensee from seeking a refund should the patents ever be found invalid. The licensees probably get a blanket license to all of Microsoft's patents. That's what the lawyers always demand in any patent settlement. Thus, the loss of this one patent is immaterial anyway.
- mrich 13y agoThis is the interesting question. I think they don't have to.
- Pxtl 13y agoWait, seriously? That's it? that's the patent MS uses to force cellphone manufacturers to pay them for Android? The Dos 8.3 / long filenames thing? That's insane. It's the obvious solution and not terribly hard to implement in the first place. The pseudocode for this would be like 5 lines.
- ProblemFactory 13y agoMost amusingly, it was Linus Torvalds who published the same solution in a mailing list 4 years before the patent was filed: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.os.minix/long$20filenames/comp.os.minix/0rgZpprg_Eo/i52eYrwT7wkJ https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.os.minix/lon...
- derekp7 13y agoWhat is even more strange, is that modern Android phones (at least the Nexus line) don't support mounting the internal memory as a fat-32 device -- they use MTP or PTP for file transfers. So as far as I can tell, there is no reason for them to use fat-32 internally anymore. Or am I missing something?
- delinka 13y agoOf course, they still need to implement FAT-32 if they ever want to mount SD cards that are interoperable with other phones, cameras, etc.
- Mindless2112 13y agoRecent Nexus devices are incapable of this because they lack an SD card slot.
- JohnTHaller 13y agoWhich is one reason why the entire Nexus series, Moto G/X, HTC One, etc don't support SD cards. That and Google wanting everyone to use the cloud.
- Pxtl 13y agoWhat happens if you plug in an SD reader or a FAT-formatted USB stick into the USB port via OTG? That would still require support for FAT in the OS.
- 13y ago
- jackweirdy 13y agoWhat's more hilarious is that Microsoft make more money from that patent than their entire revenue from Windows Phone: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/06/german-patent-ruling-threatens-microsofts-windows-phone-earnings-from-android/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/06/german-pa...
- character 13y ago"we’re all pretty sure that the Android royalties are larger in that division than the Windows Phone revenues." -Forbes Please don't incorrectly paraphrase a speculative comment.
- tedunangst 13y ago"On the grapevine we’ve been told that HTC pays $5 a handset, Samsung perhaps as much as $10." The grapevine, eh? That's where I go for all my fact needs.
- jamra 13y agoEach glaring victory in these patent battles are only eclipsed by the crushing defeats of losing a patent lawsuit. New Egg losing one case and potentially having to pay out millions is devastating. What do you do as a startup if one of these companies targets you? What do you do as a company that's been around for a while? Amazon pays out. You would have to as well. What if you can't pay? America will lose its foothold as the place for software companies to be grown and nurtured if parasitic behavior isn't removed from the tool belt of its own corporatations.
- reginaldjcooper 13y agoLet's wait for the appeal before we declare any crushing defeats, but you aren't wrong that software patents are killing innovation. I think if you're a startup and you don't plan to do VC funding, don't incorporate in the US. I guess the US courts could enforce an injunction against your company if you sell to their citizens, though.
- talmand 13y agoIf you do business inside the US then incorporating outside of it will not protect you. Ultimately, the only way to avoid these lawsuits in the US is to not do business in the US.
- reginaldjcooper 13y agoWould the US actually be able to enforce a court decision beyond injunction against a foreign business located abroad?
- twistedpair 13y agoFrance and Germany do it all the time against Google/MS.
- WildUtah 13y agoGoogle and Microsoft have local offices and funds in France and Germany. That makes them soft targets. A troll is unlikely to go to the effort to chase a foreign company with no local presence. They'd probably have to go after your customers one by one if they could find some way to even identify them.
- salient 13y agoThis headline almost makes it seem like this is a bad thing. How about: "FAT patent invalidation saves Android OEM's from Microsoft's illegitimate rent-seeking?"
- reginaldjcooper 13y ago"FAT patent invalidation reduces Android OEM costs by $3.4 billion globally"
- fit2rule 13y agoMore and more, Microsoft are starting to look like "80's IBM" ..
- mikegioia 13y agoHere's the patent for anyone interested: http://www.google.com/patents?id=cLAkAAAAEBAJ&dq=5,579,517 http://www.google.com/patents?id=cLAkAAAAEBAJ&dq=5,579,517
- WildUtah 13y agoMy speculation from previous report (note: All involved contracts are still secret.) Microsoft's earnings from Android trolling are not a matter of public record. Each agreement M'soft has made is secret. In fact, there is no strong, solid evidence that M'soft is making any money at all off Android. When Barnes and Noble's Nook refused to pay the danegeld, M'soft sued and then settled to avoid discovery. Nook actually got paid by M'soft in the settlement, though M'soft ended up with considerable control of the unprofitable Nook in exchange. Speculation is that HTC agreed to make and market Windows Phone phones instead of paying royalties. If that kind of agreement was common, it's no wonder that all the non-Nokia Windows Phone phones were garbage: They were produced under duress. Also, my Android 4 devices no longer support any kind of FAT filesystems the way my Android 2 phones did. I think Google already started making FAT optional just so as to avoid paying for patents like this one.
- av500 13y agosources close to Google that cannot be named confirm that e.g. Samsung or HTC paid nothing to Microsoft. or rather got all license fees back in terms of Windows Phone marketing kickbacks
- ZeroGravitas 13y agoDo you have an actual source, a newspaper story or something? I personally believe this to be true, it's how Microsoft often does these things and the fact that a bookstore stood up to them and won makes me think the agreements with Samsung etc. are more about showmanship. But I've never seen this side of the story repeated anywhere with quotes from sources, even anonymous ones.
- crazygringo 13y agoI'm curious, as a publicly traded company, why are these specific earnings not public? Presumably this would be a crucial element in any valuation of Microsoft shares, since it would affect the future value of Microsoft in relation to Android market share. Forgive me for my ignorance, but what determines the level of scrutiny that a publicly traded company has to make available, in terms of its sources of revenue? How far do they get broken down, either by law/regulation or by custom?
- mbell 13y agoWhile this is an important patent I believe MS went after Android manufacturers for around a dozen patents[0] so I'm not convinced this ruling alone is going to have a large impact on the royalty agreements. [0] http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/070611-microsoft-android.html http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/070611-microsoft-andro...
- losethos 13y agoI didn't do ~ short names like you are supposed to. My FAT is temporary until I get Linux and Windows to support RedSea under orders from God. Use RedSea as FAT32 and ISO9660 replacement. C:\TAD\Text\YANKEE.TXT g slave was found. CHAPTER XXXVIII SIR LAUNCELOT AND KNIGHTS TO THE RESCUE Nearing four in the afternoon. The scene was just outside the walls of London. A cool, comfortable, superb day, with a brilliant sun; the kind of day to make one want to live, not die. The multitude was prodigious and far-reaching; and yet we fifteen poor devils hadn't a friend in it. There was something painful in that thought, look at it how you might. There we sat, on our tall scaffold, the butt of the hat ---- http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Doc/RedSea.html http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Doc/RedSea.html
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- brosco45 13y agoSo, do they have to refund the billions they gotten illicitly from trolling?